Legal advice about vaccines

[Cuchculan]

Some countries have always been harder to get in as a rule. Even before any pandemic. those countries might use this to their advantage. Make it even harder to enter their country. Simple fact is even the experts have no real idea what they are fully dealing with. They are still learning as they go along. Hence we see changes to various things every so often. Something that is new to even the experts might crop up. They have to react to that, by way of protecting the public. If China was only a bit more honest about how this all really began, they might have a better understanding of it. China is sticking to the bat eating story. Which, at this stage, I think hardly anybody believes at all.

Good to see you Otherside.

 

[Phil10]

Bloomsbury staff must be vaccinated before office return

The Harry Potter publisher will require all staff to be vaccinated before they return to offices.

www.bbc.co.uk

Publisher Bloomsbury says vaccines will be compulsory for UK staff returning to its offices when they reopen.
The Harry Potter publisher's decision comes as many firms weigh up the necessity of workforce vaccinations.
The government has announced that care home workers in England will be required to have a vaccination or risk losing their jobs.

Is this going to become the new normal or rare I have been worried about my job all year I don’t want forced to take this vaccine? I am worried it could come to legal action?

 

[Otherside]

Risky. What I have seen has been "it'd be illegal to require it". Might be a few unfair dismissal cases out of that. Curious if they ask for proof of that. Seems BOA arent and it's just a voluntary thing - could easily lie about it. Would be an interesting one given theres a few people who for health reasons, cannot get vaccinated. Fairly sure thatd end up badly for the company.

With care home workers, it's a bit different - we've seen the damage that can be caused if it gets into a care home filled with very vulnerable people in there 80s/90 who often have quite severe health problems. Least in England it ripped through them, killed large numbers in one home when it got in, and there was concern here that quite a few workers weren't getting vaccinated. Not that excuse in quite a lot of other industries though.

Some countries have always been harder to get in as a rule. Even before any pandemic. those countries might use this to their advantage. Make it even harder to enter their country. Simple fact is even the experts have no real idea what they are fully dealing with. They are still learning as they go along. Hence we see changes to various things every so often. Something that is new to even the experts might crop up. They have to react to that, by way of protecting the public. If China was only a bit more honest about how this all really began, they might have a better understanding of it. China is sticking to the bat eating story. Which, at this stage, I think hardly anybody believes at all.

Good to see you Otherside.

Hey Cuch. How you doing?

 

[Cuchculan]

Good here. I shall visit the other place at some stage. See a small bit of posting has taken place. Hope you are keeping well.

On the work issue, it was clearly stated here that no company / place of work can fire anybody who does not want to get the vaccine. Are a lot of legal issues going to be involved if you do fire a member of staff over the vaccine. I doubt it will just left at that.

 

[Phil10]

Yeah, tell me about it. Lack of travel I think is the one that has sucked the most here. Have family in US, haven't seen quite a few of them now in a year and half.

Think vaccine passports/tests probably won't last beyond (at worst) mid to late 2023, beyond possibly a few countries that are fairly strict to begin with requiring them - already a few countries that require yellow fever vaccines to enter. Can see Singapore requiring it, for example. NZ and Aus possibly, already looking as though they'll stay shut though for a while. Can't see US and most of Europe asking though long term.

Logically I believe this some counties will ask for more than others.

But what if this is the new normal like airport screening? Covid tests for gigs? Or vaccines? What if they think COVID is that big a risk that we always need tested? Or will these rules slowly go once pandemic ends? Can it really go back to normal?

 

[bin_tenn]

Here in the States, at least where I live, things are getting back to a state of mostly normalcy. We can choose to wear a mask when we go out in public (I do, depending on where I'm going), but it isn't mandatory. Businesses are posting "mask not required if you're fully vaccinated" - I know this many people without masks aren't actually vaccinated, but it's not like the company can say "show me your vaccine paperwork". It's probably a HIPAA violation anyhow.

Sporting venues are getting closer to full capacity, and there are plenty of people in the stands when I see games on TV.

The number of cases is significantly lower in my area compared to several months ago, but I haven't looked elsewhere.

 

[Lanchparty7]

My state was one of the worst hit and had some of the harshest restrictions in place but even we are now fully open with no more capacity limits or restrictions in place. The NFL team here has even been given the go ahead for 100% capacity in the stadium. Just saw on the news there were zero new covid cases in my county as of the other day.

A number of states have outright banned vaccine passports, mine is not of them and is trying hard to push their version of it. As a non-vaccinated person, things that might be off limits to me (certain concert venues, cruise ships, travelling abroad) are things I wouldn’t do anyway so it isn’t a big loss. My job, however, remains a question mark as I have yet to return to the office, have no indication as to when I might be returning and also no indication as to whether or not I will have to be vaccinated, It is very possible they will require it to return…not sure what I will do if that is the case.

 

[Phil10]

Covid rates went from 900 to 2,000 in a week in scotland I have a holiday to Aberdeen in 3 weeks I want to cancel now or rearrange am I being too dramatic? Seemingly all infections are under 25 people and they say we will go down in cases once all get the jab??

 

[Cuchculan]

New Delta variant I am guessing. Seems younger people are catching it. As for your holiday? If you knew the place you were going to wouldn't be packed with people you would be fine. I think once places become jam packed we begin to have a few issues. You could ask to rearrange the date. But when will things get better? This Delta variant might get a bit out of control for a while. I seriously couldn't imagine a Winter break in Aberdeen. Just sit there and watch the rain all day long while you freeze your nuts off. Depends when you are looking to rearrange for. Who knows were this new variant is going.

 

[Phil10]

New Delta variant I am guessing. Seems younger people are catching it. As for your holiday? If you knew the place you were going to wouldn't be packed with people you would be fine. I think once places become jam packed we begin to have a few issues. You could ask to rearrange the date. But when will things get better? This Delta variant might get a bit out of control for a while. I seriously couldn't imagine a Winter break in Aberdeen. Just sit there and watch the rain all day long while you freeze your nuts off. Depends when you are looking to rearrange for. Who knows were this new variant is going.

True I mean I could rearrange this and it’s still not better. Cases were low last summer now we have the delta variant. Other places in the world like Israel have almost got rid of COVID since vaccines I wish that happened here too. New York fully open too? Surely the pandemic has to have an end date?

 

[Cuchculan]

Nothing like this has an end date. The last Pandemic lasted 4 years. We have come a long way since then. Are still a number of countries with very high death rates. So once that is still happening it will still be out there. They don't know that much about this Delta variant. Will the vaccines work on it too? Have to wait and see. They are fearing it hitting Ireland as well. We are simply waiting to see what happens. Most things are back opened up here. That could all change very quickly if case numbers start going back up again.

 

[Buship]

The Delta variant is concerning but all the vaccines in the U.K. still seem to be effective at reducing transmission and preventing hospitalisation after the second dose. It appears to be mainly affecting younger people that haven’t been vaccinated or have only had one dose.

The vaccination rate is excellent in the U.K. so we should be able to get back to normal, especially after the majority of the world has been vaccinated and the big outbreaks are under control.

As for your holiday Phil I guess you have to ask yourself if you’d be comfortable or if your anxiety would be so bad that you just wouldn’t enjoy yourself. Things will get better but its ok to wait if you feel you can’t cope.

 

[Phil10]

I have heard France and Russia might mandate the vaccines will that definitely not happen in UK?

 

[Buship]

I have heard France and Russia might mandate the vaccines will that definitely not happen in UK?

I can’t imagine it will, the uptake is high enough that they shouldn’t need to.

 

[Otherside]

Very unlikely - would not pass parliment if they were to try that (vaccine passport never went in for a vote because it wouldnt go through. Would be the same here)

Different places to here as well - France already has mandatory vaccines for other things for example (we don't - always been a "its recommended but nobody will be forced" here).

 

[Lanchparty7]

Not sure what it is like in the UK, but here in the US a number of states (not the one I live in though…they are the opposite) have already banned vax passports. I know if they tried it on a federal level…there would be pushback for sure.

 

[Cuchculan]

I am not from the UK, Ireland here, but in the UK they didn't even try and make it law because they knew it would fail. Has to voted on were their government sits to begin with. They knew it would not even pass that stage. So they never bothered even trying.

Here in Ireland there has been talk about it. But shop owners and other business people have said they would let anybody into their shops, pubs Cafes and the likes. So even if it does become some sort of law business owners won't go along with it. They have lost millions due to our very long lockdown. So need to try and make that money back. Plus the whole idea of having a person standing at a shop door asking to see a vaccine passport? That would be a nightmare. For everybody. The queues it would cause. So I can't see it passing through our government either.

 

[Phil10]

We seem to be getting domestic freedom back maybe no masks no covid passports how long before travel to Europe will be free again a year two years maybe longer? Surely if domestic freedom comes back they have to open borders again? Surely they won’t last for vaccine proof for too long?

 

[Buship]

We seem to be getting domestic freedom back maybe no masks no covid passports how long before travel to Europe will be free again a year two years maybe longer? Surely if domestic freedom comes back they have to open borders again? Surely they won’t last for vaccine proof for too long?

I don’t think anyone can say but in the short term we might find the borders of other countries more closed to us as other countries want to keep the delta variant out.

 

[Cuchculan]

I think a lot of countries left it a bit too late as far as the Delta variant is concerned. Before they knew it existed these countries were allowing people from countries were it is now running wild into their countries. So now they are expecting another wave of cases and deaths. Here in Ireland they say our 4th wave has begun. Lockdown here was only lifted a few weeks ago. I simply see it as a result of that. More people back out. We saw the same thing the last time they lifted the lockdown. in the UK the best test will come on the 19th July. Boris is doing away with face masks and social distancing. Talk about taking a very big risk. Others in the UK are against this move. He wants everybody to go back to work too. No more working from home. This could turn into a nightmare in the UK. Ireland will still keep the face masks and social distancing. Also here they are slowing down the opening of some things. A new one I heard about yesterday was the Lamda strain. Had never heard of it before. Not making the news here in Ireland. It was a person from the US, on another forum, who mentioned it. Who knows how many more variants we will see in the future.