Legal advice about vaccines

[Cuchculan]

Today we are seeing the return of some illnesses that were all but done away with. Measles been the main one. Because modern day parents refuse the normal MMR vaccine when their kids are born. We also saw a number of cases of the mumps. Had seen zero cases of that for decades. It was a simple thing years ago, you had a child they got the MMR vaccine. Only one of those 3 we have not seen any cases of is Rubella. The other 2 are back again. Young parents refusing any kind of vaccines.

 

[Jonathan123]

We could discuss this forever. Opinions vary so much. But the more we rely on facts the better off we will all be. Fake news cuts both ways. Is the fear of jabs fake news? Are the deaths fake news?. If only one person dies that is enough to justify some action.

 

[Aries]

The Covid vaccine is very safe. Very safe. Much safer than getting Covid

I had the small pox vaccine and could not get into school without being fully vaccinated. Nobody could. Whom do you know that refused the vaccine? It was safe also

Vaccines only prep our immune systems for a virus. It doesn’t mean if someone gets a vaccine then they 100% won’t get the virus or any symptoms. That’s not how vaccines work. But it generally means that the person won’t be hospitalized or die. Or overcrowd hospitals unnecessarily.

In 2003 the US tried to get healthcare workers to take the smallpox vaccine and it was s debacle. Many refused and only 30,000 got it. It was only to protect people in case of a terrorist attack since smallpox has been eliminated except for lab specimens.

US smallpox vaccination plan grinds to a halt

Only a tenth of the planned half a million healthcare workers have accepted the immunisation

www.newscientist.com

 

[Sweet T]

In 2003 the US tried to get healthcare workers to take the smallpox vaccine and it was s debacle. Many refused and only 30,000 got it. It was only to protect people in case of a terrorist attack since smallpox has been eliminated except for lab specimens.

US smallpox vaccination plan grinds to a halt

Only a tenth of the planned half a million healthcare workers have accepted the immunisation

www.newscientist.com

Thank you. I was not aware of that The Republican Bush Admin had done this.

 

[Phil10]

Hope everybody had a nice Christmas and New year this weekend.

So where do people see this going in 2022 we have vaccine mandates and lockdowns but I am optimistic they will row back on these. A document prior to Omicron called Operation Rampdown which is a Whitehall paper suggested we could learn to live with Covid end all isolation so even if you have Covid no legal requirement to isolate. As we do with flu and colds already. They also said mass testing would end and we would have to pay for tests. I believe SA has halted all asymptomatic testing now. The new varient may be the end of the pandemic as it burns out. We will get more variants as we do with flu but tend to be less severe. I imagine we can’t afford to have thousands off in the NHS with this pingdemic with isolation rules going forward. The WHO has also called for the pandemic to end in 2022. They will do this by giving vaccine to less well off countries. I read some scientists warn against too many jabs particularly a 4th as it could weaken the natural immune response to fight covid. They also suggested boosters only offered to at risk groups post 2022.

Myself I am optimistic for 2022 but rule nothing out. I do hope it’s not another year like 2021. I do hope we are treated as adults and we can live with covid next year especially when it’s a mild cold for most. 90% of UK cases are Omicron so Delta is finished so let’s hope we can move forward.

 

[Sweet T]

Hope everybody had a nice Christmas and New year this weekend.

So where do people see this going in 2022 we have vaccine mandates and lockdowns but I am optimistic they will row back on these. A document prior to Omicron called Operation Rampdown which is a Whitehall paper suggested we could learn to live with Covid end all isolation so even if you have Covid no legal requirement to isolate. As we do with flu and colds already. They also said mass testing would end and we would have to pay for tests. I believe SA has halted all asymptomatic testing now. The new varient may be the end of the pandemic as it burns out. We will get more variants as we do with flu but tend to be less severe. I imagine we can’t afford to have thousands off in the NHS with this pingdemic with isolation rules going forward. The WHO has also called for the pandemic to end in 2022. They will do this by giving vaccine to less well off countries. I read some scientists warn against too many jabs particularly a 4th as it could weaken the natural immune response to fight covid. They also suggested boosters only offered to at risk groups post 2022.

Myself I am optimistic for 2022 but rule nothing out. I do hope it’s not another year like 2021. I do hope we are treated as adults and we can live with covid next year especially when it’s a mild cold for most. 90% of UK cases are Omicron so Delta is finished so let’s hope we can move forward.

I’m hoping for a good 2022 too. For everyone. Grateful for this group. I’m listening to Neil Young. He makes everything better.

 

[Cuchculan]

@Sweet T Neil Young is the man. Love him singing.

Here in Ireland about a year ago they talked about learning to live with Covid. This was all about accepting that Covid was out there. Learning how to get on with life with Covid out there. After talking about it they only went and put us in lockdown again. Thus we were baffled. Why even bring up the subject if they knew we were going back into lockdown?

Vaccines might become a yearly thing. Much like we have the flu jab. Only I can see them coming up with a much better vaccine. They are not just sitting on their hands. They are still testing things. I think they might get lucky. If we look backwards in time we all remember the bird flu, the swine dlu and the likes. Hearing how bad it was. Now most years the flu jab is to protect us from those two things. In other words the swine flu and the bird flu are both still out there. Only they can be controled using the yearly flu jab. So imagine life with a yearly jab for Covid. Because we have to accept it is not just going to vanish. Click of the fingers and it will be gone. That is never going to happen.

Simple fact is that the world was caught napping. China and Italy had it bad to begin with. But still we had other countries thinking it would not reach them. They done nothing to get ready for it. Once it hit, it hit hard. Then they were all scrambling around like headless chickens. Looking for quick answers. There were no quick answers.

 

[Aries]

They had years to build more hospital beds and train more health care workers to handle the extra patients, but they didn't. They thought they could crush the curve and stop the spread.

 

[Sweet T]

They had years to build more hospital beds and train more health care workers to handle the extra patients, but they didn't. They thought they could crush the curve and stop the spread.

Who is they?

 

[Jonathan123]

Who is they?

This in in the UK. Our Conservative government took 20.000 police officers off the streets and cut back spending on the health service. It's why they were totally unprepared for covid. No personal protective clothing or masks. They were warned about this failure before covid began, but did they listen? Oh no! Everything cost too much. Now we have finished up in the position where we have spent ten times more buying equipment which should have been bought earlier at a cheaper price.
They say a country gets the government it deserves, and what we have done wrong to get this incompetent lot I don't know. So now you know who 'they' are!!

 

[Aries]

Who is they?

The government.

 

[Otherside]

This in in the UK. Our Conservative government took 20.000 police officers off the streets and cut back spending on the health service. It's why they were totally unprepared for covid. No personal protective clothing or masks. They were warned about this failure before covid began, but did they listen? Oh no! Everything cost too much. Now we have finished up in the position where we have spent ten times more buying equipment which should have been bought earlier at a cheaper price.
They say a country gets the government it deserves, and what we have done wrong to get this incompetent lot I don't know. So now you know who 'they' are!!

They actually had a pandemic response team and plan, then scrapped it six months before the start of it all.

Then they spaffed all the money on dodgy PPE and contact Tracing contracts owned by companies owned by there friends that sometimes had no links to actually producing this stuff (Pestfix and Ayanda Capital). Meanwhile, companies that actually produced this stuff were ignored. Currently, they are being sued over these contracts.

We have this government because people voted for them (granted it was a choice between blue rubbish or red rubbish.) This guy was mayor of London long before he was Prime Minister, and his conduct then should have given some hint as to how he would have behaved as Prime Minister. It should be no shock to anyone how it has turned out, they got what they voted for. Voted for a fool, got a fool.

 

[Cuchculan]

You can't help but look at the top 5 symptom of Omicron and think that 2 years ago we would have called that the flu or a cold.

 

[Fraser]

You can't help but look at the top 5 symptom of Omicron and think that 2 years ago we would have called that the flu or a cold.

View attachment 1250

It's the less common symptoms of choking to death or having long term problems with your central nervous symptom that makes it not a flu or cold.

 

[Fraser]

Many people alive today remember the rushed roll out of the swine flu vaccine in 1976. More people got sick and died from the vaccine than the flu.

The fiasco of the 1976 ‘swine flu affair’

With a pandemic looming, the US president announced a warp-speed effort to vaccinate every man, woman and child in the country. The mistakes that followed hold lessons for today.

www.bbc.com

They should also remember the COVID pandemic of 2019, where vaccines saved millions of lives, and base their decision on whether to take the vaccine based on that event instead of a different pandemic from half a century ago with different vaccines, technology, rates of death, etc. The false equivalence here is jaw dropping. I literally laughed out loud reading this.

Not true. 30% of people have such mild symptoms that they don't even know they have covid. For them the shot is more dangerous than the disease. Many more people only have mild symptoms and they are not wrong to opt out of the vaccine either.

How about to the people they might spread it to? And the people that get it from the people that they spread it to? Why is it so hard for some people to understand that "ME ME ME" shouldn't be your only motivation in life?

 

[Jonathan123]

The right to choose must be available, otherwise we go down the dictatorship road. But at the same time persuasion should be used to try and get the refusers to understand it's not just them involved. Yes, to many it has mild cold symptoms, but tell that to the thousands on ventilators and the many bereaved families. That the jab is worse than the disease is not true. I have not seen any reports of deaths from a covid jab. Scaremongering helps no one make a responsible choice.

 

[Fraser]

I know that if you still think death is the only rubric that should be looked at in relation to Covid, you probably aren't really into, you know, reading actual science, but I thought I'd leave this here:

Fatigue and Cognitive Impairment in Post-COVID-19 Syndrome: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

ImportanceCOVID-19 is associated with clinically significant symptoms despite resolution of the acute infection (i.e., post-COVID-19 syndrome). Fatigu…

www.sciencedirect.com

Young healthy people that get covid and have either mild or no symptoms have a very high chance of getting ****** over by the disease. Badly.

 

[Aries]

They should also remember the COVID pandemic of 2019, where vaccines saved millions of lives, and base their decision on whether to take the vaccine based on that event instead of a different pandemic from half a century ago with different vaccines, technology, rates of death, etc. The false equivalence here is jaw dropping. I literally laughed out loud reading this.



How about to the people they might spread it to? And the people that get it from the people that they spread it to? Why is it so hard for some people to understand that "ME ME ME" shouldn't be your only motivation in life?

Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world and now this:

40% of Israel could be infected with Covid-19 in current wave, says PM

40% of Israel could be infected with Covid-19 in current wave, says PM

Israel could see up to nearly 40 percent of the population infected by coronavirus during the current wave, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said Sunday, as testing facilities nationwide buckled.

www.france24.com

The vaccines don't stop people from getting it and spreading it.

 

[Iugrad91]

They keep people from being hospitalized and dying. My hubby works with a few doctors and spouses of doctors and the ones that work in hospitals with Covid units all say 95+% of their Covid beds are unvaccinated people.

Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world and now this:

40% of Israel could be infected with Covid-19 in current wave, says PM

40% of Israel could be infected with Covid-19 in current wave, says PM

Israel could see up to nearly 40 percent of the population infected by coronavirus during the current wave, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said Sunday, as testing facilities nationwide buckled.

www.france24.com

The vaccines don't stop people from getting it and spreading it.

 

[Aries]

They keep people from being hospitalized and dying. My hubby works with a few doctors and spouses of doctors and the ones that work in hospitals with Covid units all say 95+% of their Covid beds are unvaccinated people.

Eating a healthy diet, avoiding tobacco and alcohol and keeping a healthy weight keeps people from being hospitalized also. 480,000 people in the US die every year from tobacco. Over 600,000 people die from bad diets. And the government doesn't mandate healthy diet and tobacco avoidance even though that would ave more lives than covid vaccinations. Why? because the US is a free country. And I want to keep it that way.