Legal advice about vaccines

Cuchculan · Aug 18, 2021

105 is some age to reach. Fair play to the woman. Don't hold your breath waiting for things to get back to even near normal. We are a long way off that. We will see what happens this flu season and into the new year. It will give everybody a better look at how things are. Will numbers go up again or will they stay the same? Nobody can answer those questions today. By next year they should be able to see how things are shaping up.

Fraser · Aug 18, 2021

Today my college made it official; All learners, employees, contractors and visitors will require proof of COVID-19 vaccination – unless exempted – in order to attend in-person activities at our campuses.

Woot! I could not be happier about this.

Phil10 said:
My grand mother is sadly on her last few days due to her old age (105) and she’s in a care home and doesn't have long left but I feel a bit sad about the fact I have two years of my life wasted. I fear these tests for gigs and travel vaccines will continue for years and years of my life could be lost due to this pandemic. Sure things are getting better daily but when will our 2019 freedoms come back?

When those freedoms no longer impinge on the health and welfare of those around you. One way you can accelerate that is to get vaccinated.

Cuchculan · Aug 18, 2021

A little bit more patient. Things always return to normal after these things end. Thing is nobody knows when they will end.

Otherside · Aug 19, 2021

Bit more patient. Things will go back to normal eventually. We are just in a strange place where the UK is mostly fine, other places are in serious trouble and dont have enough vaccines.

Not sure about what Scotland is like at the moment, lost track to be honest what the four nations are doing different, but things are pretty much 2019 in England - bar international travel restrictions to prevent variants being taken back and causing havoc.

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Otherside · Aug 19, 2021

Phil10 said:
We still have face masks in Scotland but like they are talking COVID passes for night clubs in England so yes things normal in England but can quickly end up like France that’s my worry. I do hope we have seen the worst of the pandemic and we may be back to 2019. I will try and be more patient UK seems ok at moment compared to say Australia.

Doubt theyll get anywhere with the passes to be honest. Boris has no political capital left to implement them in England, opposition has all consistently said that they wont do it, to many libertarian Tories that will vote against them (too much like an ID card, as I've said before), not to mention the nightclub industry being firmly against any requirement to have to check those. Think it is a threat to try and increase the vaccine rate in the 18-25 age group. Is lower uptake in that group than the rest.

France...different situation there. Have issues with low uptake, high vaccine skepticism, already have requirements in place for other vaccines which we don't have here. We've always been a "we strongly advise it but wont enforce it", which has worked then and it is working now. And something as extreme as Frances implementation would definatley not pass parliment.

Not so much parliment in your case though that would enforce it, would be Holyrood. SNP not having a majority would definatley have an interesting time getting that through, would need backing from another party to do that. Con and LD would almost certainly vote no, think lab likely would. Not so sure about Green. Could see a few SNP MSPs being against it. Dont even think Scotland has the vaccine record showing on a app in the way that England does at the moment. May have changed though since I last looked.

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Cuchculan · Aug 19, 2021

As it stands, England has all but opened everything back up. Football stadiums last week were all full. Proof of negative Covid test or proof of vaccine got you into the games. Here in Ireland it is a much slower approach. I would not be surprised if our government sat back and watched what happened in England. It will either be a success or it will fail badly. We will know in a month or two. Scotland is playing it safe too. The North of Ireland is starting to try and few things with lots of people present. For much of the pandemic the North has all but done the same as the Republic of Ireland. You still have people crossing the borders to go to pubs. Places with the highest cases would be border areas. Much like anybody from Scotland could walk across the border into England and there would be less restrictions. Just for a night out on the town. So England is the place to watch. As to how things will go in most countries if they were to just open back up. Always good to have someone go before you in a situation like this.

Otherside · Aug 19, 2021

Yeah, few mass events (festivals/football matches) are asking for vaccine or proof of negative antigen test. In theory other businesses (pubs/restaurants) could ask to see it, but they generally don't. Dont think I've come across anywhere asking for it. Only place I have been asked to show it is to enter one of the Channel Islands in order to skip a quarantine. Cant really blame them. Been through this whole thing without many cases.

Even for the things you may need it for, accepting passports from a few countries, some only accepting UK issued ones. Be fully vaccinated, but that was in Canada or Serbia? Tough luck. The UK considers you unvaccinated. Same if you are fully vaccinated from a trial of a vaccine - like Valneva. Or if you got mixed doses for whatever reason. Or if you were vaccinated with Sputnik. However your GP will likely consider you vaccinated, so no, you wont get another jab so you can get the pass.

Colleague is in for a fun time when she does get back. Vaccinated with a vaccine approved here. But they do not accept that countries pass to enter quarantine free at the border. So she will be considered unvaccinated and have to quarantine for two weeks.

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Cuchculan · Aug 19, 2021

What about those new studies about 2 of the vaccines? Only 90 days protection against the Delta variant. So what happens after 90 days? Are you as good as unprotected? Was on the news here, radio wise, and I did read about it on Yahoo news.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/protection-from-covid-19-vaccines-against-delta-weakens-within-three-months-new-study-40767202.html

Otherside · Aug 19, 2021

Yeah, is a worry for those who were vulnerable to begin with.

Is why they are doing the third vaccines come Autumn for the CEVs or over 70s, although that one is a controversial one, given quite a bit of the world is not able to have one due to supply issues.

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Cuchculan · Aug 21, 2021

And where exactly would you go if they said you could travel? Most people head for Spain and places like that. Spain been a badly infected country. Especially the places all the tourists visit. If they said you could go there tomorrow would you take that risk? More chance of catching it over there than you have staying in your country.

Cuchculan · Aug 21, 2021

They will have to go down at some point in time. That is not saying it will be this year. This herd immunity people spoke of might not even happen with these vaccines. If you read the story from the link above that I posted, you will see why. Plus you speak of France, if you read in a post above, France has a very low uptake on the vaccines. They are trying to enforce them in France. I did hear that much. Heard nothing else about it since then. But every country will see a spike in cases. Then we just have to wait and see what happens next. In Ireland they still want people to work from home if they can. Trying to stop the old rush hours on the trains in the morning and evening. Will remain that way until they knew more about the direction this whole thing is heading.

Lanchparty7 · Aug 21, 2021

Looks like the Pfizer vaccine is about to receive full FDA approval. It should make me a bit more willing to change my mind…but it really is not. I just have way too many trust issues at this point and that announcement the other day about getting a third dose…possibly even more after didn’t help my concerns.

Cuchculan · Aug 22, 2021

The third dose is the booster shot. That has been known about for months over here. Will be needed quicker that expected due to the Delta variant. Which the vaccines are not doing as good against. Get yourself about 3 months protections. Then that 3rd shot will be needed.

Fraser · Aug 23, 2021

I don't think very many people who cited FDA approval as the reason they wouldn't get the shot will get it now. They will just pivot to some other "rationale" based on either specific pieces of misinformation or a general unease. The good news is that, at least in America, FDA approval will make it easier to get hard vaccine mandates in place.

Phil10 said:
I read vaccines don’t stop spread or viral load so I wonder why they want vaccine passports control maybe? I can see no reason why I can’t travel all a vaccine does is stop severe disease. When you see Australia you can see it’s about control as same happening over there

Where did you read that? While a break though case can spread as easily, it's also significantly more rare. The extent to which it is more rare is still in doubt due to the Delta variant, but I haven't read anything that says they believe it is as likely as a non-vaccinated person getting infected.

Otherside · Aug 23, 2021

I'd take a guess and say the UK news - lot of which has in my opinion, been particularly irresponsible with its reporting and has over the last few months been panicking people by saying stuff like vaccines dont stop viral load, or that is yet another killer variant coming our way that evades vaccines and is going to kill us all, often based off an offhand comment or "it coule do this".

Kinda thing that was run on one such newspaper a few days back for example from one of the offenders - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/double-covid-vaccinated-same-viral-load-unvaccinated-b951377.html?amp

Headlines like that sell here. Having less sensational headlines doesnt.

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Fraser · Aug 23, 2021

Otherside said:
I'd take a guess and say the UK news - lot of which has in my opinion, been particularly irresponsible with its reporting and has over the last few months been panicking people by saying stuff like vaccines dont stop viral load, or that is yet another killer variant coming our way that evades vaccines and is going to kill us all, often based off an offhand comment or "it coule do this".

Kinda thing that was run on one such newspaper a few days back for example from one of the offenders - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/double-covid-vaccinated-same-viral-load-unvaccinated-b951377.html?amp

Headlines like that sell here. Having less sensational headlines doesnt.

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Yes, I've seen those reports as well. It's not a good argument against vaccine mandates or passports though. A vaccinated individual with an infection can spread just as easily, a vaccinated person is still less likely to get infected (or so it seems for now).

Legal advice about vaccines

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