Legal advice about vaccines

[Jennifer]

Like I am seeing lots of stories about healthy 40-50 year olds dying due to covid conspiracy theories or once healthy people who refused vaccine are dying of COVID do you think these stories are common or is it rare?

Forever or just till pandemic ends? Vaccinated people can still spread it.

Phil ruminating is going to infest your mind like a cancer and drive you crazy.

Sadly, I'm convinced we will never have the answers so many of us a looking for.

I think we have to make our own decision to either get vaccinated or not.

Then be at peace with the devid

 

[Cuchculan]

Hard to know with such stories. If they come from a source you can trust, you can believe them. If they come from some site that is not to be trusted, then don't believe a word of it. Not hearing anything similar over here.

Might be hard to travel as long the pandemic is with us. Yes, vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus. But they are hoping the more vaccinated people there are, the more Covid will slow down. Is all just a guessing game for everybody. Experts are still learning too.

 

[Jennifer]

Ugh!!! Accidentally hit post.. no editing on this board??

...then be at peace with the decision we have made. None of this is easy for anyone but it's the hand we have been dealt.

 

[Cuchculan]

You can edit a post. Just below were the writing is in your post. Should see the edit button. Like I have edited this post to say look down bottom left of your post. That is were you will see the edit button @Jennifer

 

[Lanchparty7]

Like I am seeing lots of stories about healthy 40-50 year olds dying due to covid conspiracy theories or once healthy people who refused vaccine are dying of COVID do you think these stories are common or is it rare?

Forever or just till pandemic ends? Vaccinated people can still spread it.

I think these stories aren’t common and the reason they are being reported is because of that. There is the old saying in regards to the news…”if it bleeds, it leads”. And they are telling you these were healthy people but no one l ows their history or background. I’ve seen stories about people, younger than 40 who have died of Covid and were described as “healthy” and without pre exsisting conditions but the picture of them shows they were obese. And obesity has been called a contributing factor to getting severe covid.

One thing I try to remind myself of is there will always be outliers on both sides. Young,fit, healthy people with no pre-exsisting conditions or health problems will die from this and also older, unhealthy people with multiple co-morbidities will survive it with little to no issues. And to take what I read (both good and bad) with grain of salt and realize that everyone is different and will react to both Covid and the vaccine in different ways.

I am not ashamed to admit and have done so on here a number of times that I have chosen not to get the vaccine for a number of reasons. Won’t deny that it is tough with so much noise out there about the unvaccinated but zi have to stick to my descision.

 

[Phil10]

How do you deal with stories like healthy unvaccinated person dies of covid after refusing vaccine. These are daily stories in UK right now..but yes thanks for post above it helps but I read another story today seems they keep coming fast?

Also cases are up on last week so at what point will this be over? 90% had a first dose in UK yet cases are still high and I read herd immunity May not be possible? Will this virus ever he under control?

 

[Cuchculan]

I never watch the news. I never read a newspaper. I kid you not. No idea were you are hearing these stories. Is it on the news? Or is it social media?

Cases will climb again. Everybody is back out and about. That was bound to happen. Nobody can say when anything will end. I would imagine they are hoping for herd immunity to kick in after so many get vaccinated. Nothing saying that will work. But I imagine that is what they are hoping for. The experts are still learning as we go along too. Herd immunity works with some things. With this they would not know as of yet. I am sure after so many are vaccinated and if the case numbers are still high and rising, they will be able to say herd immunity did not work. Have to wait and see on that one too.

 

[Phil10]

Given we seen that sage want to stop mass testing and also say anybody vaccinated who gets covid still gives off same viral load why are they still pushing passports and travel restrictions? Will covid ever end and some normality return?

 

[Fraser]

Given we seen that sage want to stop mass testing and also say anybody vaccinated who gets covid still gives off same viral load why are they still pushing passports and travel restrictions? Will covid ever end and some normality return?

Because people who get vaccinated are far less likely to get and spread covid, regardless of whether or not they give off the same viral load (of the Delta variant) when they do get infected. In Canada, the federal government just mandated that all federal employees have to get the vaccine. They also just mandated that you have to be vaccinated in order to fly. Education and healthcare won't be far behind. It's great news, but it should have happened a long time ago. It means that, for the vaccinated, life may return to normal sooner rather than later.

Work wise? They won't sack you. The vaccine would have to be written into law for grounds to sack people.

I don't know about where you are from, but in America there is a strong legal precedent for mandatory vaccination. There's an even stronger one for companies to get to make their choices about safety conditions in their work environments.

 

[Phil10]

Because people who get vaccinated are far less likely to get and spread covid, regardless of whether or not they give off the same viral load (of the Delta variant) when they do get infected. In Canada, the federal government just mandated that all federal employees have to get the vaccine. They also just mandated that you have to be vaccinated in order to fly. Education and healthcare won't be far behind. It's great news, but it should have happened a long time ago.


I don't know about where you are from, but in America there is a strong legal precedent for mandatory vaccination. There's an even stronger one for companies to get to make their choices about safety conditions in their work environments.

I am UK I know America and Canada is going vaccine crazy but in UK they are saying vaccines don’t stop spread infact Wales have banned covid passports. I would rather not have unhelpful replies here I am not too interested what’s going round world expect maybe Europe and UK. We are talking about stop mass testing and daily case reporting here according to SAGE.

 

[Otherside]

Stronger employment protections this side of the Atlantic.

Unlikely they will be able to sack you in UK for it - discussion did come up at work. Boss is fairly sure there would be GDPR concerns if they were to ask people to show medical records showing proof of Vaccine/proof of exemption, could be an ECHR breach if they were to ask for it.

Travel restrictions are in place because whilst the UK is beginning to not be in such a bad place, that isnt nessecerily the case for the rest of the world, and after the panic over delta few months back, nobody wants to be importing another variant. Is similar with other countries. Trying to balance tourism, with the need to not import variants from elsewhere.

A lot of this vaccine passport stuff I imagine is hot air. Wont get anywhere here. Are trying to get the under 30s to vaccinate. So threaten vaccine passports for the things under 30s do. Gov would need to cross the same hurdle theyve failed to do so before to require vaccine passports - actually getting it to pass parliment. Which it wont, which is why theyve always backed down before it gets to a vote and the vote fails, embarrassing them in the process. To many libertarians who will never vote for it in parliament for it to ever pass.

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[Phil10]

That’s true they are going mad about delta variant abroad and Australia but seems UK cases are flattening out so perhaps normality closer in UK than other places.

 

[Jennifer]

We are pretty worried about the kids going back to school.
K - 6 th grades can not be vaccinated.

I do listen to Dr John he's in the UK everyday he has not mentioned stopping testing or reporting, that may be bunk.

 

[Fraser]

I am UK I know America and Canada is going vaccine crazy but in UK they are saying vaccines don’t stop spread

No, they aren't saying that in the UK.

 

[Cuchculan]

Just had my 6th Covid jab today. Bit woozy. But should be OK for a few more tomorrow.

 

[Lanchparty7]

Not sure about the U.K., but here in the US…it is more state by state policy than federal policy. As you all probably know, one governor in particular has been quite outspoken about his state in one direction while other states go the opposite way. In other words, one state could mandate while others don’t. My state is one that likely would mandate. Also, the US media deals in hysterics…on both sides.

 

[Fraser]

Not sure about the U.K., but here in the US…it is more state by state policy than federal policy. As you all probably know, one governor in particular has been quite outspoken about his state in one direction while other states go the opposite way. In other words, one state could mandate while others don’t. My state is one that likely would mandate. Also, the US media deals in hysterics…on both sides.

Federal mandates are possible as well.

 

[Lanchparty7]

Federal mandates are possible as well.

Yes..that is also possible. My guess is though if that were the case, they would be challenged in court and possibly struck down by judges as that happens a lot with other things. You never know with this administration but I think they might have more pressing issues at the moment.

I am wondering what happened to the Novavax vaccine? I thought it was close to be ready for usage but haven’t heard a thing about it. It is a non-MRNA one and I would be more willing to consider that one.

 

[Fraser]

Yes..that is also possible. My guess is though if that were the case, they would be challenged in court and possibly struck down by judges as that happens a lot with other things. You never know with this administration but I think they might have more pressing issues at the moment.

No. There is an overwhelming precedent, like I said, for mandates on vaccines and the Supreme Court has no patience for the attempts to block vaccine mandates so far. They are more than happy to let universities and private companies create vaccine mandates, which is fantastic.

University Vaccine Mandate Stays as Justice Barrett Rebuffs Plea

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett turned away a challenge to Indiana University’s requirement that all students be vaccinated against Covid-19 for the fall semester unless they have a religious or medical exemption.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Phil10]

My grand mother is sadly on her last few days due to her old age (105) and she’s in a care home and doesn't have long left but I feel a bit sad about the fact I have two years of my life wasted. I fear these tests for gigs and travel vaccines will continue for years and years of my life could be lost due to this pandemic. Sure things are getting better daily but when will our 2019 freedoms come back?