Article re Swedish Study on Health Anxiety by Stephen Hughes, "The Conversation"

[PieFan]

God is not meant to be defined, really. Spirituality is the gap between mental interpretation and physicality. Oh goodness, the more I think about this, the more I could start writing a philosophy thesis! Sorry @Jonathan123

[/QUOTE] I have to respectfully disagree. God can easily be defined. He wants us to know who He is and what He is. We have proof of that in His letter to us, the Bible. As a matter of fact, he wants us to know all about Him. “Let us create man in our image” is the first indication. If we are created in His image, then we obviously have the capability of defining who and what God is. His Image is not limited the physical appearance. All through His Words to us He gives us great information about Himself. He is full of love, He gets angry, He gets jealous, He is regretful, He is vengeful, he desires perfection, He demands order, He is forgiving, full of patience, gentle, compassionate, I could go on. He shows us his character all through his Word. We share the same traits He has. He is our creator, He wanted us, therefore He created us out of that desire. He loved us enough to give us free will, to have the choice to return that love. That tells me that He wants to be loved too. Just like we want to be loved. And while we may not understand all about Him, I think He gave us enough evidence to be able to define who He is and what He desires. That’s what spirituality is. Being personal with our Creator and growing to understand who He is and returning our love to Him. It’s not really such a big mystery.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not having an in-depth academic religious discussion tonight, I'm really tired after a day playing for Good Friday services, but for centuries God was a woman, and the New Testament Bible was not put together until the 4th century (1611 for the Bible most of us are familiar with) I'm Catholic and the books of Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, First and Second Maccabees are in the Catholic Old Testament Bible but not the Protestant Bible.

What I am saying is God is God, however perceived (via culture, learning, accepted wisdom, personal experience and spirituality)

The world would be a happier and better place if people stopped 'flattening the narrative' to quote NZ theologian Bosco Peters, and the same for scientific research @Jonathan123

I notice that the word 'may' be causing the problem is used, 'not is' but 'may be'. Hedging our bets?

Not at all. Most research reveals a set of finite facts, and suggests potential explanations and directions for further research.

I wish I could have more faith in my doctors, but I’ve been dismissed too often and have had way too many medical errors to be able to “accept.”

My initial GP foot diagnosis was completely wrong, and not only that from communicating with other people with the condition after my correct diagnosis (Charcot Arthropathy) it is almost always misdiagnosed until severe. I responded by making 1000 information cards and sending them to everyone I could think of who could help spread awareness, and since diabetes is the primary cause it's now become part of diabetes testing and management, to check people's feet (also eyes and kidneys)

What is interesting for my correct foot diagnosis @blueberries was I went to a good psychiatrist with my anxiety disorder after my first panic attack, I was all over the place on our appointment there was so much going on with me, I took off my shoes and said look at my feet! He started to say 'I'm not that kind of doctor' then looked and touched my foot, and asked if I had diabetes, then said I should be aware of Charcot Foot, because my swollen foot was significantly warmer than the other foot. That's the first indication.

So if I had not gone to a psychiatrist to treat my anxiety disorder...who knows.

*

Sending love and healing wishes to everyone.

 

[Jonathan123]

What do we mean by 'studies'? The students take a limited amount of facts, put them together in the form of a thesis and then assume they have got it right because they have researched it. There are over 60 million people in the UK, have they spoken to them all? Theories must stand the test of time. In my considerable experience in counselling I never found anyone dying prematurely because of anxiety or depression. That is from personal experience not so called 'research'. The number of so called 'studies' I have read over the years is considerable, but hardly any really seem to understand what anxiety is truly about. All the researching the world will not help one bit in stopping the ever increasing anxiety rate. It's good solid advice from those who have been there that is needed. It is also the recognition from governments that more resources are needed to cope with mental health.
Have any of these researchers suffered from real anxiety? Maybe, but I doubt it. It is ridiculous to say that because someone dies of a natural disease and was an anxious person that anxiety contributed to their death. Everyone at some stage in life will be anxious about something. Fear is a perfectly natural phenomena and is a friend because it protects us from danger. Take it all with a pinch of salt and concentrate on positive information from those who have been there.

 

[PieFan]

What do we mean by 'studies'?

Scientific research consists of peer-reviewed papers and articles on collected data, experimentation and analysis of results and observations.

Have any of these researchers suffered from real anxiety?

I do.

It's good solid advice from those who have been there that is needed.

It is. Based on our understanding to date. But getting people to try things which might help them is a whole research area in itself. People are reluctant, our brains and bodies are resistant, one's experiences to date cloud or influence judgment.

I used Loretta Breuning's Habits of a Happy Brain 45 day program for creating new neural pathways, you pick the thing or things you want to change and cultivate a new attitude or behavior by practicing it daily, Breuning had observed that 45 days is roughly how long it takes for the habit to feel natural and normal. She was criticized for her lack of peer reviewed research supporting her ideas, which is one reason I tried them, I wanted to see for myself, and yes, it works, with a proviso- 45 days creates a neural pathway or habit, but the deeper ingrained habits are stronger and will return if the new habit is not continually reinforced. Change is an ongoing practice, a new way of life. Change is, literally and figuratively, hard.

Breuning's 2019 book Tame Your Anxiety: Rewiring Your Brain for Happiness
is an excellent review of her understanding of the issue, I'd say that anyone who wants to more deeply understand behavior change, addiction or anxiety within various contexts could benefit from it.

People may not want to more deeply understand these things or be ready to change though. As for spirituality, yes, it's a whole concept in healthy living, the idea of 'holistic', attending to mind, body, spirit. Louise Hay used a whole different paradigm for healing to support people with HIV and AIDs in the early days before medical science had any understanding and solutions, helping thousands of people.

In England we used to say 'horses for courses' (!) ie it's not 'one size fits all' for recovery and healthful living.

 

[Jonathan123]

Scientific research consists of peer-reviewed papers and articles on collected data, experimentation and analysis of results and observations.

But how does any of this help a sufferer? OK, so I have panic attacks, can't concentrate, feel depressed and fearful, so I read a thesis and all will be well! Most sufferers will say, 'I want help not a load of studies'. Do these studies further the recovery process? It might be argued that knowledge is helpful and it is if it's constructive and offers ways out of our anxiety. But studies are opinions are often not fact based. There is no substitute for experience.
A man is shot by an arrow. Does it help to know which tribe fired the arrow or what the arrow as made of and what was its velocity? No, we want the arrow out and all the conjecture in the world will not do that.

 

[Sweet T]

In my experience I think people believe the medical community knows more and can do more for people suffering with illnesses. We are all human and medicine can only do so much.
Growing older is scary. We all knows what is to come. It’s no wonder many people have anxiety.

 

[MATD]

In my experience I think people believe the medical community knows more and can do more for people suffering with illnesses. We are all human and medicine can only do so much.
Growing older is scary. We all knows what is to come. It’s no wonder many people have anxiety.

Science cannot cure the common cold. But in about a week or ten days, our body does it for us. Just takes a little time. But I do agree with your statement.

But how does any of this help a sufferer? OK, so I have panic attacks, can't concentrate, feel depressed and fearful, so I read a thesis and all will be well! Most sufferers will say, 'I want help not a load of studies'. Do these studies further the recovery process? It might be argued that knowledge is helpful and it is if it's constructive and offers ways out of our anxiety. But studies are opinions are often not fact based. There is no substitute for experience.
A man is shot by an arrow. Does it help to know which tribe fired the arrow or what the arrow as made of and what was its velocity? No, we want the arrow out and all the conjecture in the world will not do that.

If I remember correctly, Dr Weekes received little peer support for her acceptance method. Those peers would not accept her work as valid. They never gave her a chance. But here we are, using her method to recover from anxiety. She conducted no studies that I’m aware of but she developed the method from her own experience as an anxiety sufferer. And she isn’t the only professional who was shunned by her peers. History also records many in a vast number of scientific disciplines who were not taken seriously by their peers and were shunned from the realms of science. It’s a good ole boys association and if those good ole boys don’t agree with you, you’re out. I’ve read a lot about people who have had this experience down thru the ages. Sad but true. Studies are good but the people conducting them are imperfect. A lot of money is wasted on studies that lead nowhere because of the condition of the human heart. And I’m with Sweet T, I do believe there are cures and such that are known, but if they are released big Pharma and the medical merry go round would loose big bucks without the revolving doors of medicine.

 

[PieFan]

Growing older is scary.

Is it? Or have we been conditioned to think it is.

I'm decrepit and disabled now (in a country without proper disability benefits or support) and I don't fear getting older. It is what it is,

If I had a cold or 'flu or Covid in 2024 even if I feel terrible I know I will not likely die from the experience given current knowledge and resources. In early 2020 if I had contracted Covid I might more likely die, a combination of fear and its effects on the body and less sophisticated nursing and medical understanding and resources.

I admit that it's more difficult if you are in America, where we don't have a proper health and welfare system, if you have not accumulated wealth which is the assumption here that everyone can do.

how does any of this help a sufferer? OK, so I have panic attacks, can't concentrate, feel depressed and fearful, so I read a thesis and all will be well! Most sufferers will say, 'I want help not a load of studies'.

Well there's plenty of 'junk science' help and cults and profiteering from others' suffering if people would want to go that way!

Beware easy help.

In the Christian Bible(s) that is Luke 12, where it also says there is an unforgivable sin- blasphemy against the holy spirit. Mocking or denigrating another person's faith.

 

[MATD]

In the Christian Bible(s) that is Luke 12, where it also says there is an unforgivable sin- blasphemy against the holy spirit. Mocking or denigrating another person's faith.

Respectfully disagree. If this is the unpardonable sin then we have to eliminate the apostle Paul. He fiercely persecuted Christians for their belief in the Messiah. He stood by, holding the coats of those that stoned Steven to death. Yet Christ knocked him down on the road to Damascus and as a result, most of the New Testament was written by him. Many a person has mocked and denigrated another person’s faith, the Bible has many instances, King Nebuchadnezzer for another instance, yet he became a great believer in God and even wrote parts of the Book of Daniel. Luke 12 is explaining how we are not forgiven if we do not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through us when we are delivered up before the powers that be in the last days when antichrist is on earth. We are told to not premeditate what we will say, but the Holy Spirit will speak through us. Anyone who does not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through us is not covered by the sacrifice of Christ. Luke makes this very clear, unmistakable. The Bible is just like any other work, follow the subject. It is a dangerous thing to take scripture out of the context from which it was written. We will be held accountable for what come out of our mouth.

 

[PieFan]

Thanks for trying to talk with me about religion @MATD but I'm going to drop this now, we are hijacking the thread but also- my faith is strong (ie I don't need converting) and I don't think we are talking about the same topic here.

 

[MATD]

Thanks for trying to talk with me about religion @MATD but I'm going to drop this now, we are hijacking the thread but also- my faith is strong (ie I don't need converting) and I don't think we are talking about the same topic here.

You opened the door. I’m not trying to convert you, that is your choice to make. I’m just pointing out what the scripture actually says as to your own statement about the unpardonable sin. I am not mistaken as to what your statement implies. It’s very clear and addresses a specific topic. As Christians we are instructed to correct our fellow Christians who are in error out of love. Reread Luke. Misquoting scripture can cause much harm to those who are trying to seek the truth in God’s word. I’ll let God take it from here.

 

[Phillies Phan]

Respectfully disagree. If this is the unpardonable sin then we have to eliminate the apostle Paul. He fiercely persecuted Christians for their belief in the Messiah. He stood by, holding the coats of those that stoned Steven to death. Yet Christ knocked him down on the road to Damascus and as a result, most of the New Testament was written by him. Many a person has mocked and denigrated another person’s faith, the Bible has many instances, King Nebuchadnezzer for another instance, yet he became a great believer in God and even wrote parts of the Book of Daniel. Luke 12 is explaining how we are not forgiven if we do not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through us when we are delivered up before the powers that be in the last days when antichrist is on earth. We are told to not premeditate what we will say, but the Holy Spirit will speak through us. Anyone who does not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through us is not covered by the sacrifice of Christ. Luke makes this very clear, unmistakable. The Bible is just like any other work, follow the subject. It is a dangerous thing to take scripture out of the context from which it was written. We will be held accountable for what come out of our mouth.

The Antichrist is already amongst us. And yes, this post has indeed been hijacked. Please find a religion forum if you must try and convert people, be it out of “love” or is it love of power? Or create a new post entitled “my religious beliefs are the correct ones” and go preach to the good people on this site who may not be as religious as you are, or who are damned to hell since they don’t see things the way you do. That means no heaven for Buddhist’s, for Jews, for Muslims and I can go on. But they’re all bad people right? They don’t belong in the perfect eternity you will enjoy, right?
Nonsense! My dad was a pious and good man. Lived a life believing in God. I am agnostic but I know one thing for certain…if there is a heaven, a God, my dad is there. My mom as well. Not a religious woman, but a Good woman, who raised her kids right, sacrificed for them, loved her husband with every ounce of her being. Yeah, she’s in heaven with him. It really is a form of hate speech to preach that only those who believe as you do are rewarded. This is why Godliness is good, but religion can be evil.

 

[Hobbit]

Whether this post has been hijacked or not it has made for incredibly interesting reading !

 

[PieFan]

if there is a heaven, a God, my dad is there.

We are all going there, unless heaven concept is a form of social control! Which it's not.

It's okay to 'believe' so long as we understand that is fundamentally personal to ourself, God as a concept is more elusive than we think, and frankly self-sacrifice of Christ well he is recorded to have said we should take up our cross to follow him. That means us being more open, loving, supportive, forgiving, compassionate etc.

I don't think you meant any harm here @MATD but you have often said that your mother's rigidity has impacted your later life. It's okay for you to relax too. Love is love is love is love, that's the spirit of the universe which I believe will prevail.

 

[MATD]

We are all going there, unless heaven concept is a form of social control! Which it's not.

It's okay to 'believe' so long as we understand that is fundamentally personal to ourself, God as a concept is more elusive than we think, and frankly self-sacrifice of Christ well he is recorded to have said we should take up our cross to follow him. That means us being more open, loving, supportive, forgiving, compassionate etc.

I don't think you meant any harm here @MATD but you have often said that your mother's rigidity has impacted your later life. It's okay for you to relax too. Love is love is love is love, that's the spirit of the universe which I believe will prevail.

For God to create us and then not reveal His plans and instructions on how to live our lives successfully, then He would be a God far removed and unable to judge. But He did give us His instructions and plans, it’s called the Holy Bible. It full of who He is, what He plans, what He wants from the children He created. It’s literally a guide to life. Did you know God placed conditions on His love and blessings? We must meet those conditions if we want to inherit the blessings. How can we know who God is if we know nothing about Him? To make up our own reality about Him is just lying to ourselves. He sent His written letter to us, full of everything we need to know about Him but a lot of mankind rejects it, instead they want to believe their own self created reality, literally creating their own method of salvation to live eternally. From what the Bible tells us, that ain’t gonna work. But you be you, you are free to choose. And God will do the judging. And if that is ridged, so be it, I’m just a messenger, God is the judge, take it up with Him.

Whether this post has been hijacked or not it has made for incredibly interesting reading !

 

[MATD]

The Antichrist is already amongst us. And yes, this post has indeed been hijacked. Please find a religion forum if you must try and convert people, be it out of “love” or is it love of power? Or create a new post entitled “my religious beliefs are the correct ones” and go preach to the good people on this site who may not be as religious as you are, or who are damned to hell since they don’t see things the way you do. That means no heaven for Buddhist’s, for Jews, for Muslims and I can go on. But they’re all bad people right? They don’t belong in the perfect eternity you will enjoy, right?
Nonsense! My dad was a pious and good man. Lived a life believing in God. I am agnostic but I know one thing for certain…if there is a heaven, a God, my dad is there. My mom as well. Not a religious woman, but a Good woman, who raised her kids right, sacrificed for them, loved her husband with every ounce of her being. Yeah, she’s in heaven with him. It really is a form of hate speech to preach that only those who believe as you do are rewarded. This is why Godliness is good, but religion can be evil.

Open forums means exactly that. One must be ready for feedback when they post on open forums. And I’m ready. You are free to disagree and challenge my post with a rebuttal, but you fail to offer any valid proof that my post is wrong. Opinions are not proof.

 

[Phillies Phan]

I’m seriously thinking of leaving this site and finding another.

It has been hijacked by people, and concepts that do nothing for the reason I came on this site..to share my fears and mental health issues with similarly situated people. For many of us, our loved ones can’t help us, as much as they love us, because, like Jonathan says, they haven’t experienced what it’s like having anxiety. I thought of us like our own type of family.

Quoting from the great rock opera Tommy, “don’t want no religion, not as far as I can tell..”. But seriously, maybe the mods can create a section for religious talk. That’s fair. I don’t usually go to the social anxiety site, since I don’t have that form of anxiety, but it’s great it’s there for those who do. Let’s do that with those who feel they must spout their religious beliefs on those who are here for other reasons than to be preached to.

 

[PieFan]

to share my fears and mental health issues with similarly situated people.

I don't really relate to many people in the way I've chosen to deal with anxiety disorder @Phillies Phan and even less so now I have a foot disability too. I'm in agony this morning, my right foot is not cooperating! Just took 2 acetaminophen/paracetamol, got an ice pack on it. Need to be up at 6.

 

[Jonathan123]

I’m seriously thinking of leaving this site and finding another.

It has been hijacked by people, and concepts that do nothing for the reason I came on this site..to share my fears and mental health issues with similarly situated people. For many of us, our loved ones can’t help us, as much as they love us, because, like Jonathan says, they haven’t experienced what it’s like having anxiety. I thought of us like our own type of family.

Quoting from the great rock opera Tommy, “don’t want no religion, not as far as I can tell..”. But seriously, maybe the mods can create a section for religious talk. That’s fair. I don’t usually go to the social anxiety site, since I don’t have that form of anxiety, but it’s great it’s there for those who do. Let’s do that with those who feel they must spout their religious beliefs on those who are here for other reasons than to be preached to.

No, please don't leave the site. Your posts are valuable and we do need some input that does point us in the right direction. This is an open forum, and opinions will be expressed about many subjects. I do agree though that maybe we should have a thread for those with religious views and even political ones. Anxiety does encompass religious views and many find comfort in them. That can never be bad. Both religious and politic views are part of life and can play a big part in anxiety issues. Perhaps we need to be more tolerant of other's views. Maybe that's the lesson we need to learn. Anxiety after all can be regarded as a learning experience, and the more we learn about it the better. But only from personal experience, not by theory. We are a family because we all share the same problem. We should always come back to those three wonderful assets, empathy, compassion and understanding.