Narcissism and borderline personality disorders

[solana]

Two years ago I was in a relationship in which I felt continuously ill. I didn't know exactly what was causing my anxieties, depression and feelings of worthlessness.


Everything had started in such an amazing way with my new boyfriend at the time. We had met online and I was blown away with his attention, his intelligence, his deep understanding for me and our alleged soul connection. How naive I was...


I had just escaped a loveless marriage of 8 years and I was starving for some attention and what I considered as "real love". Well, what I found, or what found me, was a very clever and shrewd manipulator.


A man who gorged himself on my emotional energy while systematically trying to destroy my inner balance by criticizing me, humiliating me, ridiculing me, lying to me and making me feel guilty for everything that went wrong in his life. But everything was staged in such a clever way that I didn't see what was really happening until I kicked him out of my home. He had lost his job by that time and was living of my kindness.


After I kicked him out, I went through some kind of nervous exhaustion, or perhaps even a mental breakdown. I am not quite sure. I couldn't really understand what had happened to me. In the 20 months that I had spent with him, I had turned into a total wreck. I had nightmares and strange states of mind where this man infiltrated my consciousness all the time. He appeared like a vampire to me with his endless needs and chronic dissatisfaction.


Then, one night, as my head was spinning again with unresolved issues, I suddenly could hear a voice in my head. And as strange as this might sound, the voice urged me to google "narcissism".


I couldn't believe what I found. There were many people describing almost exactly the same what I had experienced. They had been damaged on every level, emotionally, mentally and physically.


I researched the topic for many months after that and found that narcissistic disorder is not just an exaggerated state of self-love but that it can be a serious mental condition for which there is no real treatment available, as even psychologists and counselors often get sucked into the games of the narcissist. These people are awfully charming and usually quite attractive as well, but they lack empathy or real feelings for others. They are only interested in what they can get for themselves, be it attention, sympathy, money, sex, favors, etc.


I could write many pages about this topic. But I will stop here. I would like to know if you have ever had to deal with a person in your immediate surroundings who displayed "symptoms" of a being a narcissist, and how you handled it.

 

[MVLaHearse]

I've been there and done that. People with borderline personality disorder and narcassism are some of the best people to deal with at first just to turn into the worst people to deal with. I had to learn I wasn't as crazy as I thought I was and I wasn't a horrible or stupid person. It took awhile to get past all of that and I still don't trust people completely. What's funny is when I finally called him out on it he flipped out and became violent. That was it for me and I bailed. He followed me around for awhile and then I guess I didn't entertain him by being scared of him so he moved onto his next victim (who I warned BTW.)

 

[rz3300]

Well I would have to think that narcissism is up there with one of the more irritating qualities to have to deal with in a person, and I do know a couple of people who may qualify. The thing is is that I tend to distance myself from anyone who would act like that, so I do not really know these people all too well. Whenever I see them or interact with them, though, it is all about them and how they are feeling and what they have going on. It is no surprise I guess, but still when you are standing there you cannot help but think to yourself how selfish the person is. Oh well, it is just another weird reality of this life.

 

[Corzhens]

I know of some people who are like that we consider them more of egoistic than narcissistic. solana I find your case the opposite of narcissism issue. Pardon me but I don't exactly blame your partner for the abuse rendered to you because you allowed it. Anyway, the opposite of narcissism I am saying is that you have been neglecting yourself by giving everything to your partner as if nothing is alive except him. So you don't mind being neglected at first since you are madly in love with him. That is the problem. If your feet are always on the ground, so to speak, you will still know reality even when you fall in love. That showering your partner with affection is not bad but it has limits for you might spoil him. And that's what happened. And when the time came that your love had dwindled, that's when you realized that you are being abused by your partner although it has been going on for years already.

 

[solana]

I know of some people who are like that we consider them more of egoistic than narcissistic. solana I find your case the opposite of narcissism issue. Pardon me but I don't exactly blame your partner for the abuse rendered to you because you allowed it. Anyway' date=' the opposite of narcissism I am saying is that you have been neglecting yourself by giving everything to your partner as if nothing is alive except him. So you don't mind being neglected at first since you are madly in love with him. That is the problem. If your feet are always on the ground, so to speak, you will still know reality even when you fall in love. That showering your partner with affection is not bad but it has limits for you might spoil him. And that's what happened. And when the time came that your love had dwindled, that's when you realized that you are being abused by your partner although it has been going on for years already. [/quote']
Geez, Corzhens, you are pretty judgmental for someone who doesn't know me, or about the exact background of what happened to me or to other people who have been affected by narcissistic behavior.


I would like to ask you to please be more considerate to people who are open to share very personal experiences here on this forum in order to help themselves and others. I find some of your comments rather perplexing. You seem to be interpreting my words in a curious manner that has absolutely nothing to do with what I actually wrote. Be so kind and do some research and examine your good manners before you shoot off at the mouth about things that you clearly have no clue about.

 

[Roscas]

If I may, let me start off with some definitions I googled to put what I am about to say in proper perspective. In psychology, narcissism is "extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type". In psychoanalysis, it is "self-centeredness arising from failure to distinguish the self from external objects, either in very young babies or as a feature of mental disorder. " (google search) But if it is a narcissistic personality disorder, it is "a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism." (https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder). That done, let me proceed.


All kinds of relationships are complex because these are very dynamic. I think the most complex of all relationships are those between couples, and between parents and children. When we fall in love, women tend to lose themselves in the relationship and give all they are able to in it. We begin to identify who we are in relation to the one we have fallen in love with. We become co-dependent with our partners or husbands. The effect can be losing our own identity unawares. As the relationship continues in time, our own identity, inches itself back to the surface from where it was buried. We start to realize what is wrong and what is right in the relationship. This is a good phase in the relationship but can be very painful. Reality begins to bite.


In your case solana, it took you a while to realize the relationship you were into was a dysfunctional one brought about by the narcissistic personality of your partner. It is not that you consciously allowed yourself to be in a dysfunctional relationship, you were merely unaware that it was so and it took your consciousness to wake up and realize that. A lot of women go through such realizations (some sooner while others much later) because only through time do we truly get to know who and what are partners are in the relationship, how we are treated and how this change in time.


If the partner takes pleasure and thrives from putting you down and demolishing or diminishing your self-worth and self-esteem, consciously and systematically able to devise his own style and method to get the most out of you to uplift his ego, self-centeredness and own importance, then probably he has a disorder and not just an inflated ego. It takes time for anyone in that relationship to comprehend what is going on and what went wrong. You are right. Women would even think we are the ones going crazy. After some time, we tend to believe we are unworthy, we are worthless and way below his standards.


It takes courage to take that step to think inwardly of ourselves because this is quite painful. There is confusion, uncertainty, doubt, even thinking we are being paranoid and that whole process of rethinking can discombobulate our entire being. But truth will always set us free. You had that courage to go through that inner process. What you realized was you had to get out of it. It took you long because you did not know any better. Most of us learn from experience and there is no handbook or formula for relationships exactly meant for you or I or anyone. There are only guidelines and tips. We create our own road map and pave the road on our own. But never forget you are not alone. I use 'we' in general in representation of women and their plight. Kudos to you....for finally deciding to act.

 

[Corzhens]

Geez, Corzhens, you are pretty judgmental for someone who doesn't know me, or about the exact background of what happened to me or to other people who have been affected by narcissistic behavior.


I would like to ask you to please be more considerate to people who are open to share very personal experiences here on this forum in order to help themselves and others. I find some of your comments rather perplexing. You seem to be interpreting my words in a curious manner that has absolutely nothing to do with what I actually wrote. Be so kind and do some research and examine your good manners before you shoot off at the mouth about things that you clearly have no clue about.

I am sorry if you are offended, please accept my apology. I am not really being judgmental but only speaking my mind of what I know about the issues. I have joined this forum in the understanding that all opinions will be welcome. Now, if you think I misbehaved, again, please accept my apologies. I didn't mean to offend anyone here in this forum.

 

[Androlo]

I can completely relate to what you have written above and yes, I've been through it myself also. I was in a relationship with a covert narcissist for over ten years, who completely destroyed me. I lost my sanity, my soul, my will to live and all sense of physical, emotional and mental wellbeing. I know what you mean when you say that you could write pages and pages about it. After my experience, I myself became a writer, researcher and am now considered an expert on the topic of narcissism. Without wanting to sound like I'm blowing my own whistle, I have become known as one of the main writers on the internet on the topic of narcissism. I have published hundreds of articles and a book about it and have helped thousands of people all over the world who are victims of narcissistic abuse. Narcissistic abuse is an absolutely horrifying experience for any person to have to go through. There is something which you may find fascinating which relates to the way that you described the words "google narcissism" coming to you intuitively and that is that many long-term victms of narcissistic abuse end up going on to develop high levels of intuition and psychic awareness which helps them break free from the abuse. Seeing as empathy is the key component to psychic abilities this makes perfect sense. Many former victims of narcissistic abuse go on to become psychic which acts as a defense mechanism, preventing them from ever being manipulated in the same way in the future.

 

[Androlo]

I know of some people who are like that we consider them more of egoistic than narcissistic. solana I find your case the opposite of narcissism issue. Pardon me but I don't exactly blame your partner for the abuse rendered to you because you allowed it. Anyway' date=' the opposite of narcissism I am saying is that you have been neglecting yourself by giving everything to your partner as if nothing is alive except him. So you don't mind being neglected at first since you are madly in love with him. That is the problem. If your feet are always on the ground, so to speak, you will still know reality even when you fall in love. That showering your partner with affection is not bad but it has limits for you might spoil him. And that's what happened. And when the time came that your love had dwindled, that's when you realized that you are being abused by your partner although it has been going on for years already. [/quote']
Whilst I can understand your point of view and where you are coming from, when it comes to narcissism it doesn't quite work like this. Narcissistic abuse is so much more extreme that it can be considered to be a form of mind control achieved through emotional, mental and sometimes physical abuse. Narcissists are predatory in nature. It's not that the victim allows it to happen, it's that the victim has been chosen because they already have issues in their lives which can be exploited which allows the narcissist to develop control over them and push them into a corner that they can never get out of. Narcissists are criminal masterminds and have a superhuman capacity for manipulation. Anyone, including yourself, can be manipulated and controlled by a narcissist and you won't even realize it's happening until it's too late. By the time it comes into your conscious awareness, all your resources towards escape have been cut off.

 

[Surrender]

This is an interesting conversation. I have been dealing with realizing I was raised by a narcissist and have a lot of them in my life. While I agree these people are so covert you don't know what's happening until it's too late - I also think there is a part the victim plays too. When you are raised by a narc you become perfectly trained how to play the role they want you to play, you learn your life is meaningless, and you exist solely for their use. That's pretty hard to break free from. But when you are out in the world with strangers - you don't have to play that role with others. It takes a lot of self reflection and self analysis to realize if you are always playing the supply role for narcissistic people.


So in a way I do partially agree with what Corzhens said, that we are allowing them to take advantage of us. I am of course not saying that we deserve this treatment - but only that our behavior does play a part. I am watching my narc parent now and watching their interactions with others. I see there are the empathetic, bleeding heart type people (like myself) that are easily swayed and easily brought under their control. Then I see others with stronger self images and better boundaries in place, that can read my narc parent a mile a way and will not allow themselves to be controlled.


So while it is horrendous the damage these people can do, I think once we realize we are unconsciously playing the supply role, there is a lot we can do to change ourselves, to make sure we not allow this to keep happening in our lives.

 

[whysewserious]

A narcissist who has someone in their clutches is quite crafty in making that person feel like they have worth and value. I was in a relationship with a guy who was quite skilled at this. It drained me quickly and within months I was too burnt out to want to invest any more time it. I feel fortunate that I had not spent more time in it and found . myself fortunate to have been fed up so quickly.


Not all are in the same situation. They create a feeling that you are important to them, they make you feel needed, but give absolutely zero back. If I hadn't been going through circumstances outside of the relationship where I was receiving constant, real support from my friends, I probably would not have had the comparison of how devoid of any real support I had in this relationship.

 

[Kosta]

I am really sorry for your bad experience with that guy. According to your words, he certainly wanted to crush your spirit, taking the complete control over you only for himself. 20 months seem as a very long period under those conditions. I do not know did he use physical violence over you, but I am sure that sometimes the mental and psychological pressure can be even worse. As I am virtually placing myself in a similar situation, it becomes totally obvious that I could not be more than a few days in such relationship. Be sure that you are a strong woman, when you have endured all this. And it is pretty normal that you have some temporary psychological problems at the end of this relationship. But, I also believe that you will be fine soon and that bad period will only become an ugly nightmare. There are so many idiots on this planet, and I have had problems with them many times in my life. But, with a big experience that I have acquired throughout my life, I am trying to recognize all those morons, before they make some damage.

 

[sidney]

Interesting, I have always wondered how narcissists act, and based on what I have been reading, they seem malevolent and just wants someone to be under them to cater to them and make them feel how great they are. I think I know someone that is a narcissist as well, and she doesn't like people to be more "loved" than her. She lacks empathy too.


Well at least you're in a better place now than before, and you have finally learned to let go of someone who does not have your best interest at heart.

 

[doryQ]

Interesting, I have always wondered how narcissists act, and based on what I have been reading, they seem malevolent and just wants someone to be under them to cater to them and make them feel how great they are. I think I know someone that is a narcissist as well, and she doesn't like people to be more "loved" than her. She lacks empathy too.
Well at least you're in a better place now than before, and you have finally learned to let go of someone who does not have your best interest at heart.

From what I've read and experienced, that's basically what they want. The victim they attach themselves is their "supply" of attention, and they need that supply in order to avoid the feelings of self-hatred deep, deep inside of them. Narcissists have no sense of boundaries and feel entitled to everything and anything you can give them, so they mess with your brain to ensure you'll never leave them. It's very scary when they get their supply cut off from them -- they can get violent and lose themselves in their delusions.


For example, my boyfriend, after a long and arduous process, cut himself off from his narcissistic friend, and the ex-friend lost it. He threw tantrums on facebook to slander our names, harassed us with calls and messages, and stopped by our apartment (!) to demand to see my boyfriend. Thankfully, since we didn't give him the attention he desperately craved, he gave up, and since he had his freakout in public, a lot more people were understanding to me and my boyfriend. But even though it was resolved nicely, we're still wary about letting people into our lives, and of being stalked the narcissist online.


I'm glad all of you have managed to get away from these energy suckers, and have had a chance to be free again.

 

[Aree Wongwanlee]

Goodness, the description of this disorder makes me wonder if I suffer from it, without being aware of it. What I do know is that now I live alone. I have had three marriages and they are all ended. Is it possible that I had been some kind of monster, without realizing it? I mean, I do have a strong attitude about how I want to live my life. And my way of life is not exactly the way many people live. For one, I had been a perfectionist. I know it can be an exhausting experience to live with an perfectionist. I also have very strong views about how to raise a family. Now, looking back, I don't think I have allowed any of my spouses to put much input into how to bring up the kids.


Seems like I have cared too much about myself. That's makes me a narcissist, does it?

 

[kgord]

I lived with a narcisscist, and it was no fun. It is the walking on eggshells thing that is troubling, and the fact, that the person never gave back. I realize in myself, that I do have these tendencies, but I have a heart, a strong heart which distinguishes me from real narcissicists. There is a difference between being self centered or self absorbed and a narcissist. A narcissist is really incapable of caring for others, and


sees everything from their own perspective and how it will benefit them. They can not look at their own behavior and see how it may have impacted others. Only you know @areeWongwaniee if you are really a narcissist, but perfectionism is a different thing

 

[Surrender]

Aree Wongwanlee it beautiful you are able to contemplate and reflect on yourself and be open to finding fault in yourself. That is a huge step towards personal growth. Bits of narcissism are possible in all of us, but to be clinical I believe it has to be pretty deeply ingrained in all the DSM descriptors, and it I believe it kind of borders even on being a low level psychopath.


If you are raised incorrectly (like we all are in one way or another!) your parents could have led you to feel you are the center of the universe and are entitled to having it all your way. Some people have never been exposed to the idea of caring for others and looking after them and their best interests, and it doesn't cross their mind. They just connect with like minded people who want nothing from them, or they connect with a supply source that feeds into them and allows them to function as they are.


I think the fact you are questioning yourself and your behavior is an excellent sign that you would not be a clinically diagnosed Narcissist, but you may have some aspects of it that would do you well to address, to better your future functioning in relationships and in life. God bless

 

[sidney]

From what I've read and experienced, that's basically what they want. The victim they attach themselves is their "supply" of attention, and they need that supply in order to avoid the feelings of self-hatred deep, deep inside of them. Narcissists have no sense of boundaries and feel entitled to everything and anything you can give them, so they mess with your brain to ensure you'll never leave them. It's very scary when they get their supply cut off from them -- they can get violent and lose themselves in their delusions.


For example, my boyfriend, after a long and arduous process, cut himself off from his narcissistic friend, and the ex-friend lost it. He threw tantrums on facebook to slander our names, harassed us with calls and messages, and stopped by our apartment (!) to demand to see my boyfriend. Thankfully, since we didn't give him the attention he desperately craved, he gave up, and since he had his freakout in public, a lot more people were understanding to me and my boyfriend. But even though it was resolved nicely, we're still wary about letting people into our lives, and of being stalked the narcissist online.


I'm glad all of you have managed to get away from these energy suckers, and have had a chance to be free again.

I see, so they can indeed be malevolent huh? You should have called the cops while he was harassing you so that he can get in jail. The narcissist that I know loves slandering and spreading rumors about herself so that she can get attention, so maybe she is indeed one! She has high self confidence too! And delusional! When a person starts to make up stories and pass off her delusions as "truth", even dragging other unwitting people into her delusions then you know that they must love themselves and attention that much!

 

[Aree Wongwanlee]

Aree Wongwanlee it beautiful you are able to contemplate and reflect on yourself and be open to finding fault in yourself. That is a huge step towards personal growth. Bits of narcissism are possible in all of us, but to be clinical I believe it has to be pretty deeply ingrained in all the DSM descriptors, and it I believe it kind of borders even on being a low level psychopath.
If you are raised incorrectly (like we all are in one way or another!) your parents could have led you to feel you are the center of the universe and are entitled to having it all your way. Some people have never been exposed to the idea of caring for others and looking after them and their best interests, and it doesn't cross their mind. They just connect with like minded people who want nothing from them, or they connect with a supply source that feeds into them and allows them to function as they are.


I think the fact you are questioning yourself and your behavior is an excellent sign that you would not be a clinically diagnosed Narcissist, but you may have some aspects of it that would do you well to address, to better your future functioning in relationships and in life. God bless

Thank you for your encouragement. Now I have been living alone for many years. My time is mostly spent in cyberspace. If I am not surfing Facebook, I am exploring the hills of Azeroth in the World of Warcraft. I don't really socialize any more. Maybe I should. That would make me develop my skills at developing better relationships with other people. Interacting with people in Facebook is definitely a long way from socializing in real life.

 

[misszerable]

Wow. I'm a single parent because I ended a relationship with a man who had an exaggerated view of himself, was selfish and possessive. He was a type who would get jealous about the attention that I was giving to my child, who is also his child. He would also get jealous at the attention that I was giving to my first nephew. He would also tell me that I'm a loser, that I am so like his classmate who was unlucky in job and career. Yet, in the last two years that we had been together, he was totally dependent on me financially. He became a total jerk when he lost his job. He was too proud to look for another job. It was like he was lifting his low self esteem by putting other people down. He would curse my son and call him abnormal, a useless child. The final straw came one night when my son had difficulty sleeping and was being noisy. He came up to him and pushed him. My son fell on the floor and his head was wounded when he hit a wooden toy. I had to save my son from this monster so that very night, I threatened to send him to jail if he didn't leave. Thankfully, he did listen and left us for good.