Legal advice about vaccines

Cuchculan · Oct 24, 2021

If I was a betting man, which I am not, I would bet the virus will burn itself out. Meaning a lot of people will catch something. Mostly something mild. It will run its course. Just like the last pandemic did. Done so much damage and then it was gone. It also took a few years to vanish. Back then there was no social distancing. No face masks. None of that at all. Lot of places would have been overcrowded. Slums would have still existed in most countries. I like to think we have come a long way since then. But there is nothing to simply stop the virus. Hence my guess of it just stopping itself in time. If that is next year or the year after none of us could tell for sure. Just have to get by. Day after day.

Otherside · Oct 24, 2021

Phil10 said:
True but I mean he said he wouldn’t mandate it in America. Hopefully Scotland doesn’t copy Wales

Trump banned Europeans from entering since March 2020, and he likely would have done the same thing as Biden has done with the mandatory vaccines/tests for foreigners who want to visit the US when they reopened. Won't stop unvaccinated Americans - can't interfere with there freedoms after all - will stop unvaccinated foreigners.

As I've said, it doesn't matter if you can leave the UK and fly somewhere if you can't fly back in without a vaccine/test.

Cuchculan · Oct 24, 2021

Trump wants back in power again. He will say what he knows the people want to hear.

Jonathan123 · Oct 25, 2021

We often forget lessons learned for other pandemics in history. The Great European Plague of the 17th century burned itself out, although it is said to have killed off a third of the European population. It will finish up being like the flu, with vaccination being need once a year. There have been so many plagues from ancient Egypt onwards. They will always be with us as the world gets more crowded. International travel is mostly to blame.
It's a far fetched theory I know, but I believe viruses have a kind of primitive intelligence. As soon as a new vaccine comes along they mutate. How could they know how to defend themselves? They are a life form and as such are looking for survival as we all do. The fact that they kill people in the process has no bearing on the need to survive. People behave like a virus don't they? They kill each other to survive.

Cuchculan · Oct 25, 2021

About 10 years ago they warned of a super bug that would come along. One that no modern medicine could treat. And here we are. At that time they said people depended on antibiotics too much. That a virus would come along that was used to all antibiotics, thus making them useless. You just have to look at the normal flu. No cure for that. Because it always changes. They can make the virus weaker if we get it. But that is still not stopping it. I do agree it is like a life form that wants to survive. It will do so by jumping from person to person.

Otherside · Oct 25, 2021

But adults who catch covid with 2x/3x vaccine are less likely to end up hospitalized if they get it, as the vaccine mostly prevents against severe illness and death.

That is what the lockdowns have been preventing - healthcare collapse because people filling up the hospitals.

It's going to be a hard one to sell yet another lockdown in the UK (particularly selling another cancelled christmas), it even just shutting off the cinemas/mass events to prevent spread to the 2x/3x jabbed who feel that theyve done there part if that ends up happening. You could probably sell mask restrictions, but stay indoors unless you have a good reason to be at home? Absolutley not.

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Otherside · Oct 25, 2021

In a population with 90% adults vaccinated, that's hardly surprising. The numbers in hospital and dying are still significantly down from the numbers we have in December 2020/January 2021 - for now, anyways, and hopefully, as it did in Israel, the booster rollout will lower those numbers a bit (as it does seem effectiveness begins to wane after 6 months, more so with the AZ which we've used a lot of).

What's the difference between now and then? A highly vaccinated population.

That said, we have data coming out of the US who don't have our numbers as to who is more likely to end up severely ill and hospitalized. Or closer to home, in European nations such as Romania and Latvia with there low vaccine numbers and who is ending up hospitalized and causing the healthcare system to get close to, if not, collapse.

Flu Jab isnt mandated, most people eligable though do get the jab yearly, and for the most part, they stay out of hospital. Generally those offered are vulnerable to it to begin with (either because of age, or due to be immunocompromised or having a respiratory illness). We've never really had the extreme number of flu patients filling up ICUs each winter as we did with Covid last year.

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Cuchculan · Oct 25, 2021

Up above I clearly said the vaccine was not a cure. It was only a help to lessen the effects of the virus. Nothing else. People will still catch it. Vaccinated people. But they stand a bit more of a chance and not been hit hard. There is no cure. Hence I said it will probably burn itself out at some point in time. Maybe next year. Maybe the year after that. Until then you will be living the life you are living now. Nothing will change for you. This might be one tough Winter. For all of us. Who knows how it will play out.

Jonathan123 · Oct 25, 2021

Phil10 said:
“Adults who have been fully vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 can carry the same viral load of the delta variant as those who are unvaccinated, a preliminary analysis of UK data suggests.”
“
Listen to this video clearly from Prime Minister Boris Johnston just days ago

https://twitter.com/essexpr/status/1...261284874?s=21

You can still GET covid with a vaccine and you can still SPREAD it!!

Want to dispute the facts? There is no case for vaccine passports”

UK cases past few days dropping like a stone Dissolving any need for Plan B and C. Telegraph said we could see infections as low as 5,000 a day UK by December. Any comments?

Yes!! If you believe Boris Johnson, his cronies and the Daily Telegraph you are in for a disappointment. Why they didn't lift restrictions in stages I do not know. The fact is it's getting worse here in the UK. In my view, and I know it's not everyone's, but it's been a right mess from the start. Everything was too little too late. This winter will reveal if everything was done as it should have been.

Otherside · Oct 25, 2021

Jonathan123 said:
Yes!! If you believe Boris Johnson and the Daily Telegraph you are in for a disappointment. Why they didn't lift restrictions in stages I do not know. The fact is it's getting worse here in the UK. In my view, and I know it's not everyone's, but it's been a right mess from the start. Everything was too little too late.

What do you mean De Pfeffel tells porkies....

Nah, I'm with you there. About the only bits they did right was the initial vaccine procurement rollout (because they didnt outsource that to Pestfix or Capita or whoever for once) and the amount of genome sequencing that was done on positive tests.

Not lifting the restrictions as fast as he did - would have been slaughtered by the backbenchers.

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Jonathan123 · Oct 26, 2021

Yes!! It does make one wonder who rules, the government or the back benchers. In terms of anxiety none of this dithering helps. Uncertainty in anxiety is a real no no. But that's all we have had for the past two years. So called 'experts' contradict one another, and their predictions are often way out. Allowing large gatherings with no masks is sheer folly. Public transport is still mask free. Why can most of us see it and they can't? But the economy comes before lives. Business must be kept going at all costs. A little hardship now would ease a lot later.

Cuchculan · Oct 26, 2021

You know what had me laughing? Football match on TV. Thousands of people bunched in together. Only one of them had a mask on. As if wearing that mask was going to protect him. Goal goes in. They all start jumping around together. Hugging each other. Including the one with the mask.

Otherside · Oct 26, 2021

Jonathan123 said:
Yes!! It does make one wonder who rules, the government or the back benchers. In terms of anxiety none of this dithering helps. Uncertainty in anxiety is a real no no. But that's all we have had for the past two years. So called 'experts' contradict one another, and their predictions are often way out. Allowing large gatherings with no masks is sheer folly. Public transport is still mask free. Why can most of us see it and they can't? But the economy comes before lives. Business must be kept going at all costs. A little hardship now would ease a lot later.

Playing politics. Always the way. My idiot of an MP is in that Covid Research Group lot, along with other nutcase groups that massively fail to represent the constituents who elected him. Also under threat from a Chesham and Amersham style Lib Dem vote next time, so heres hoping...

Masks were a non-issue for me. People in my town were still mostly wearing them July/August/September here. But starting to stop now. Commuters still mostly wearing them on the trains at commuter times here. Other times though...nah, wont see a mask. Unless you're in an airport or on plane. Which for some reason is different and then you legally have to wear a mask because that is different for some reason.

Need to start considering the Plan B I think before Plan B becomes the Plan C and we get another cancelled Christmas.

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Cuchculan · Oct 26, 2021

As I said on the other forum, the government here are ignoring the health experts. Why? Because the are aware of what another lockdown will do to the government. No other reason at all. Case numbers are back were they were in March of this year. In March they cancelled St. Patrick's day and all the parades. I would assume NPHET are warning the government of what awaits them in a few months. But we always knew it would go this way. Once restrictions were lifted. People all back out doing normal things again. It was never going to go any other way. Lot of cases. Hospitals packed again. Winter should be interesting.

Fraser · Oct 26, 2021

Phil10 said:
You can still GET covid with a vaccine and you can still SPREAD it!!

Want to dispute the facts? There is no case for vaccine passports

There isn't a face palm gif big enough for this.

Jonathan123 · Oct 27, 2021

Fraser said:
There isn't a face palm gif big enough for this.

But the point is surely that it reduces the chances of getting it and if you do it will not require hospitalisation. When I was a child diphtheria was a common disease among children. There were 'carriers', those who had it but with no symptoms but could pass it on to others. It may be the same with covid. I am not a great admirer of the pharmaceutical companies, but they did get moving on vaccines. OK, so there are big bucks in it for them, but the benefits have also been good. The death rate in the UK has fallen considerably due to vaccines.

Legal advice about vaccines

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