I Had a Covid Breaking Point

[AriaRen]

Sorry Jen, I just don’t tolerate fools very well. If it’s ignorance, that’s fine. We all are ignorant of things and hopefully we are willing to be educated. That’s why I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. It’s just that attitudes like his are what’s fueling the continued proliferation of this pandemic, continuing to cause untold misery, and stopping ALL of us from getting back to the life and the world we all remember.

Do you think I want to have to show “my papers” to an 18 year old kid so I can sit down and eat a pizza? Absolutely not. Pisses me off. But it’s because of the deniers/the ignorant that I’m forced to do so and will be for the forceable future. More importantly, as someone with bad HA, I seriously worry that if my worst fears are realized and I or a loved one need serious medical care, it will be delayed or worse.

”Your” rights end when it affects my health, well being and life.

Agreed, 100%

 

[Fraser]

The hostility in this thread is gross. Seriously. This is not how to get your point across nor is it how we should treat others, regardless of what you might take offense to.

I am openly hostile to people who support ideologies and worldviews that feed into the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and I do that without apology. Flippantly saying "Do you think people live forever?" in a public forum to people who have suffered and lost loved ones due to Covid deserves an equally flippant response.

 

[ThankfulJen]

I'm not sorry. And I have seen a few of you say some pretty flippant things to others that was unreasonable and uncouth a handful of times but pointing fingers gets us nowhere. The truth is, it may have not been said in the most eloquent of ways, but it isn't just the experts that some of you believe in who have a voice in this argument. You have the right to be biased, sure. But telling someone how stupid they are or to eat s$#t because they said "Do you think everyone lives forever, " is a bit much. My grandma died when she was 59 from brain tumors. Doesn't mean I'm going to berate someone for having an opinion about cancer or flipping out if they say no one lives forever. Trust whatever expert you would like. We don't have all the facts about COVID. But there are ways to treat people you disagree with. That's definitely a fact.

 

[Fraser]

I'm not sorry. And I have seen a few of you say some pretty flippant things to others that was unreasonable and uncouth a handful of times but pointing fingers gets us nowhere. The truth is, it may have not been said in the most eloquent of ways, but it isn't just the experts that some of you believe in who have a voice in this argument. You have the right to be biased, sure. But telling someone how stupid they are or to eat s$#t because they said "Do you think everyone lives forever, " is a bit much. My grandma died when she was 59 from brain tumors. Doesn't mean I'm going to berate someone for having an opinion about cancer or flipping out if they say no one lives forever. Trust whatever expert you would like. We don't have all the facts about COVID. But there are ways to treat people you disagree with. That's definitely a fact.

I didn't ask you to be sorry. I'm also very comfortable with the way I've treated Aries in this thread and the way that I respond to Covid and vaccine denialism more generally. Let me be as clear as possible: if you don't like it, I do not care. If you want me to alter my reactions moving forward: no.

 

[Doug97]

I'm also against Covid denialism, for what it's worth.

I've had lots of vaccines in my time, so has everyone, I don't see why this one is any different. It's all culture wars.

 

[ThankfulJen]

I didn't ask you to be sorry. I'm also very comfortable with the way I've treated Aries in this thread and the way that I respond to Covid and vaccine denialism more generally. Let me be as clear as possible: if you don't like it, I do not care. If you want me to alter my reactions moving forward: no.

I don't expect you to. And the non apology wasn't aimed towards you. It's not all about you, Fraser. You have been kind to me in other areas so I am trying really hard to refrain from saying exactly how I feel. That's great that you don't care what I have to say and that you are perfectly fine with your behavior. You don't need to be any more clear. But I said what I said. I'm not backing down from it either. You and I obviously have different ideas on how others should be treated.

I'm also against Covid denialism, for what it's worth.

I've had lots of vaccines in my time, so has everyone, I don't see why this one is any different. It's all culture wars.

I have had lot's of vaccines myself. And I have always had a choice as to which ones I get. And I don't have to tell anyone what they are or which ones I haven't gotten. And I definitely don't go around terrorizing a single individual for their vaccine choices.But I do find it ironic that someone is being attacked for what is deemed dangerous because of what they said while others are participating in what is clearly dangerous and irresponsible behavior in some of ya'alls eyes and everything is rainbows and lollipops. In fact I think it was you Fraser, who told a woman she was pretty much a terrible mother for not getting vaccinated. That"s called being a hypocrite.Lol really cracks me up.

 

[Aries]

If the vaccine works how are the unvaccinated adversely affecting you? On the other hand many health care workers would rather quit than get a vaccination and THAT will affect your health because there won't be enough doctors and nurses.

1 in 6 healthcare employees would rather quit than get vaccinated

As COVID-19 vaccines become more readily available, healthcare companies are debating to what extent they should pressure their employees to be immunized, according to an April 5 article published by The Washington Post.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

What do you want? Vaccine squads going around, holding people down and force drugging them with vaccine?

And this has been known for months:

Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not...

apnews.com

So there is no need to turn the country into a totalitarian police state. Human Rights Watch has written about the dangers of that happening.

How Authoritarians Are Exploiting the COVID-19 Crisis to Grab Power

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/03/how-authoritarians-are-exploiting-covid-19-crisis-grab-power

Notice I am not the one throwing insults around and calling them stupid. That is the surest way to prove you have no actual sound argument. I am just trying to educate people.

 

[ThankfulJen]

If the vaccine works how are the unvaccinated adversely affecting you? On the other hand many health care workers would rather quit than get a vaccination and THAT will affect your health because there won't be enough doctors and nurses.

1 in 6 healthcare employees would rather quit than get vaccinated

As COVID-19 vaccines become more readily available, healthcare companies are debating to what extent they should pressure their employees to be immunized, according to an April 5 article published by The Washington Post.

www.beckershospitalreview.com

What do you want? Vaccine squads going around, holding people down and force drugging them with vaccine?

And this has been known for months:

Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not...

apnews.com

So there is no need to turn the country into a totalitarian police state. Human Rights Watch has written about the dangers of that happening.

How Authoritarians Are Exploiting the COVID-19 Crisis to Grab Power

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/03/how-authoritarians-are-exploiting-covid-19-crisis-grab-power

Notice I am not the one throwing insults around and calling them stupid. That is the surest way to prove you have no actual sound argument. I am just trying to educate people.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[Doug97]

We've all had vaccines in the past, what makes this one so scary?

 

[Aries]

We've all had vaccines in the past, what makes this one so scary?

Many people don't want to get vaccinated. You won't convince them to by calling them stupid or telling them they are the enemy of the good. People who don't get the vaccine will get covid and either get immunity or die. Either way that will stop them from spreading covid.

You also have to keep in mind that MANY vaccine hesitant are health care workers.

The reasons behind the healthcare workers' vaccine hesitancy were varied, with the most common reasons cited being how quickly the vaccine was developed, insufficient safety and effectiveness data, a disbelief that the vaccine would protect them from COVID-19 infection, and concerns about serious side effects.

Why are some healthcare workers refusing COVID vaccines?

While a small percentage of survey respondents said they would not get the vaccine, that still could have widespread and dangerous ramifications, experts say.

www.modernhealthcare.com

Do you have any idea how many drug were approved and then taken off the market because they were found to be dangerous?

One-Third Of New Drugs Had Safety Problems After FDA Approval

More than 70 drugs approved by the FDA from 2001 to 2010 ran into safety concerns that prompted withdrawals from the market, "black box" warnings or other actions.

www.npr.org

 

[Doug97]

You didn't answer my question. Also, I never called anyone the enemy of the good.

 

[Aries]

I did answer. No drug is 100% safe. No one should have to take it unless they want to.

 

[Doug97]

I asked, what makes this vaccine so different from the measles, mumps, rubella, TB vaccines we've all had?

What makes this vaccine so different?

 

[Aries]

How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says

Emerging data suggest that Delta could spread more readily than other coronavirus variants among people vaccinated against COVID-19. But key questions remain.

www.nature.com

And millions of health care workers are not refusing other vaccines.

TABLE 4. Vaccines removed from the market - Vaccine Development: Current Status and Future Needs - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Doug97]

People who don't get the vaccine will get covid and either get immunity or die. Either way that will stop them from spreading covid.

I'm certain that you realise that's not how it works. I'm starting to think that you are arguing in bad faith.

 

[Fraser]

If the vaccine works how are the unvaccinated adversely affecting you?

It's hard for me to tell if you mean this seriously or not. Do you think that I think because I have the vaccine I can't get Covid or suffer the long term effects of Covid? Do you think that's what means the vaccine is "working?" Do you think that unvaccinated people aren't allowing the vaccine to replicate itself at a higher rate and increasing the amount of potential mutations as a result? Do you think that my access to medical treatment isn't compromised because of the burden on the healthcare system due to unvaccinated patients? Do you think that my concern about vaccinations rests solely on whether or not it affects me directly? There are so many wrong conclusions that have to be made to arrive at this argument that it's just absolutely staggering.

I am just trying to educate people.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Aries]

I'm certain that you realise that's not how it works. I'm starting to think that you are arguing in bad faith.

I'm not arguing. How do you think pandemics ended in the past before vaccines?

 

[Fraser]

How do you think pandemics ended in the past before vaccines?

Massive amounts of deaths and long term consequences, both to the people that suffer from the lasting effects of the disease and to the wider economy. Many of those deaths and consequences are now avoidable thanks to vaccines.

 

[Aries]

Jesus Christ.

I'm not Jesus.

Massive amounts of deaths and long term consequences, both to the people that suffer from the lasting effects of the disease and to the wider economy. Many of those deaths and consequences are now avoidable thanks to vaccines.

Death is not unavoidable. People will live longer if they take care of themselves but that's THEIR business.

 

[Fraser]

I'm not Jesus.

Death is not unavoidable. People will live longer if they take care of themselves but that's THEIR business.

It's their business if it affects them, such as eating poorly or smoking. It's not their business if their choices mean that they cause other people to die, such as driving drunk. Choosing not to get vaccinated hurts other people and society at large and prolongs the pandemic along with tandem, wider consequences.