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Legal advice about vaccines

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Phil10

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America will let you in vaccinated without a test which is progress. I hope to travel to Europe and at worst take a test not ideal. The issue is they want you to quarantine on way back in UK if unvaxed how long will that rule likely last?
Fraser said:
There isn't a face palm gif big enough for this.
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Well the words came from Uk prime minister
 
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Otherside

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Let me put it this way -

Unvaccinated needing to do a PCR before travel (or considered unvaccinated because you come from a country who's certs we dont recognize), then on day 2 and day 8 is quite possibly the only situation here where there is not any political capital required to do and keep in place. So, a while.

It's not personal. It's there because they dont want a variant coming back in. And as much as you keep saying "but you can still carry the virus if you are vaccinated", the risk is considerably lower that the vaccinated will carry the virus.

Think how things were in June when they let all those people fly in from then Amber-listed India when Delta was rampant and there and that threatened the reopening. They would be stupid to allow that to happen again.

Dont know where you're getting no test needed for UK-US travel. Possibly if you're an American Citizen you wont if you're vaccinated. But if you're a foreigner you absolutley need to test, vaccine or no - though a LTF will suffice.

Straight from the US embassy if you want a source on the last one. https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/u-s-visa-and-travel-faqs/

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Phil10

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Otherside said:
Let me put it this way -

Unvaccinated needing to do a PCR before travel (or considered unvaccinated because you come from a country who's certs we dont recognize), then on day 2 and day 8 is quite possibly the only situation here where there is not any political capital required to do and keep in place. So, a while.

It's not personal. It's there because they dont want a variant coming back in. And as much as you keep saying "but you can still carry the virus if you are vaccinated", the risk is considerably lower that the vaccinated will carry the virus.

Think how things were in June when they let all those people fly in from then Amber-listed India when Delta was rampant and there and that threatened the reopening. They would be stupid to allow that to happen again.

Dont know where you're getting no test needed for UK-US travel. Possibly if you're an American Citizen you wont if you're vaccinated. But if you're a foreigner you absolutley need to test, vaccine or no - though a LTF will suffice.

Straight from the US embassy if you want a source on the last one. https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/u-s-visa-and-travel-faqs/

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Yes you need to test but I mean I wonder how long before I don’t need to quarantine in UK that’s a new thing? I would like a holiday but it seems it will be hard to do for a while. I did read we are going to cut back on testing in UK and will become like Spain no longer testing asymptomatic people. Maybe 2022 will bring some progress I would like to atleast go abroad with at worst a test without the quarantine stuff.
 
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Otherside

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Phil10 said:
Yes you need to test but I mean I wonder how long before I don’t need to quarantine in UK that’s a new thing? I would like a holiday but it seems it will be hard to do for a while. I did read we are going to cut back on testing in UK and will become like Spain no longer testing asymptomatic people. Maybe 2022 will bring some progress I would like to atleast go abroad with at worst a test without the quarantine stuff.
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Possibly 2022 between certain countries, depends how things are. They night start allowing proof of recovery within 6 months as other countries - do not know if you would qualify under that.

I can see it being a while in the UK. Other countries? Who knows. Will be on a country by country basis.

No tests vaccines or quarantine if you fly from within the Common Travel Area back to the UK (Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey). But may well be going the other way. Jersey was strict on that when I flew UK -> Jersey. But nothing the other way. Wont be treated as having gone abroad on return. May be your best bet if you want a holiday is to stay in the Common Travel Area. See if any of those allow tests or recovery in place of a vaccine.

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Phil10

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Seen this today

www.dailymail.co.uk

No booster... no hassle-free foreign travel, say Ministers

Plans to reimpose quarantine and testing for those who have refused their third vaccine are currently being drawn up by Ministers to protect the UK against the spread of new coronavirus variants.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Some on here said this may end in a few years but seems nobody can go a holiday without latest booster despite cases falling fast. Will this ever end?
 
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Otherside

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Err, they rise and fall? Up and down a lot? Not sure about fast, only in the last few days. Same as it has been for the last few months. Up and down. Could rise again - though hopefully not - and there is still genuine fears that it could end up being a difficult winter.

You should really take the Mail with a pinch of salt, its drumming up hyperbole for clicks...
 
Cuchculan

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Case numbers are well up here. Though numbers in hospital are well below the case numbers in total. Say we have 4,000 cases. Is only about 400 in hospital. You can do that maths with that one. Who knows what Winter will hit us with. Could get far worse before it gets better. Last thing I am thinking of right now is a holiday.
 
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Phil10

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Cuchculan said:
Case numbers are well up here. Though numbers in hospital are well below the case numbers in total. Say we have 4,000 cases. Is only about 400 in hospital. You can do that maths with that one. Who knows what Winter will hit us with. Could get far worse before it gets better. Last thing I am thinking of right now is a holiday.
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Right now I fear I may never in my life travel again. Sure this post may not age well perhaps I can Google it in a few years after I do travel but the covid crisis has seen crazy measures so nobody can say 100%. We still don’t know if they will treat this like flu despite suggestions it will sit with all the other coronaviruses.
 
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Just accept no holiday for a while. I know a family who went off to Spain along with few other families. Something they do every year. Every single one of them caught Covid. Worth the risk for a bit of sun?
 
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Phil10

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Cuchculan said:
Just accept no holiday for a while. I know a family who went off to Spain along with few other families. Something they do every year. Every single one of them caught Covid. Worth the risk for a bit of sun?
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Fair point but let me take the risk. Life is a risk.

Biggest issue is Wales is bringing them in for cinemas and cafes today I stay in Scotland but they are nudging for them in cafes and hospitality by mid November.

I soon won’t be able to go anywhere bit like Europe where you can’t leave house without a green pass. I wish I could bin this topic but we are heading to it coming to the stage I can’t work I can’t travel I can’t go anywhere I’m sorry I don’t want this vaccine seems they want to mandate it via back door?
 
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The vaccine is a risk too. But you are not willing to take that risk? Prefer the Covid risk?

No forced vaccines for anybody. Simply means less you can do. That was always going to be how it worked. No idea when any of that will change either.
 
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Phil10

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Cuchculan said:
The vaccine is a risk too. But you are not willing to take that risk? Prefer the Covid risk?

No forced vaccines for anybody. Simply means less you can do. That was always going to be how it worked. No idea when any of that will change either.
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What’s the point of existing in a world where you are a second class person and can’t do much? The issue here is vaccinated people are willing to accept this.
Did we not have this issue during WW2 fighting for freedoms funny how history repeats itself
 
Cuchculan

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You are willing to take one risk and not another. Tell me your difference between both risks. If we consider the vaccine a risk and Covid another risk.

Life will return to normal some day. We simply have to accept it as it is today. We might not like it much. It is as it is. Can't say nobody expected us to be hit with a pandemic. Can't just do nothing about it. Like allowing people to run wild. Doing as they please. That would help nobody at all.
 
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Phil10

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Cuchculan said:
You are willing to take one risk and not another. Tell me your difference between both risks. If we consider the vaccine a risk and Covid another risk.

Life will return to normal some day. We simply have to accept it as it is today. We might not like it much. It is as it is. Can't say nobody expected us to be hit with a pandemic. Can't just do nothing about it. Like allowing people to run wild. Doing as they please. That would help nobody at all.
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I like your optimism that it will return to normal one day I mean during the wars it would be hard. Problem is I have anxiety right now it feels like I can never holiday go to a cinema a pub anything a concert? I mean if this ends one fine if it’s one or two more years of this I guess we got through lockdown. Issue is for me it feels this will never end like when I am 60 I fear these rules but I really hope thats just me over worrying?
 
Cuchculan

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Will end way before you are 60. It will burn itself out in my opinion. Do all the damage it can do. Nothing left for it after that. The vaccine is simply a way to lessen how bad that damage will be on people. In Ireland we are close on 3,000 cases a day. Only about 500 in hospital. Think of those not in hospital. Highest figures since the start of the year. So many have no need to end up in hospital. I am telling nobody to take the vaccine. That is up to them. It is just as much a risk as Covid. But one risk that might help you be able a lot more risks.
 
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Phil10

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Cuchculan said:
Will end way before you are 60. It will burn itself out in my opinion. Do all the damage it can do. Nothing left for it after that. The vaccine is simply a way to lessen how bad that damage will be on people. In Ireland we are close on 3,000 cases a day. Only about 500 in hospital. Think of those not in hospital. Highest figures since the start of the year. So many have no need to end up in hospital. I am telling nobody to take the vaccine. That is up to them. It is just as much a risk as Covid. But one risk that might help you be able a lot more risks.
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But you believe the vaccine won’t be mandated like it feels mission creep every day Into all aspects of life in wales today more rules despite falling cases I Duno about Ireland but UK seen 17 day drops now and SAGE says it will drop to 5,000 daily cases by Xmas. So it’s funny how things are getting better here yet the rules get worse..
 
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Rules will get worse before they get better. They don't another surge of it to hit again. Once they can balance things out there will be no more need for rule changes. But to do away with all rules might mean case numbers going back up again. So they are simply playing it safe. Nothing more. Here case numbers are going up. Not down.
 
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Phil10

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Cuchculan said:
Rules will get worse before they get better. They don't another surge of it to hit again. Once they can balance things out there will be no more need for rule changes. But to do away with all rules might mean case numbers going back up again. So they are simply playing it safe. Nothing more. Here case numbers are going up. Not down.
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The health secretary says today they want over 65 to get a booster or they can’t access trains or restaurants.

And Wales need passes for cinemas. How long before I won’t have a job! I asked this lots but these passes keep getting extended to everywhere?
 
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@Otherside might be better placed to answer any questions about the UK and vaccines. Kind of different here in Ireland.
 
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