Covid

Cuchculan · Jul 10, 2021

This is one I will stay out of for now. I am sure Frazer will have a lot to say about it. People have their own opinions on Covid. For the sake of keeping this thread, try and resist from name calling or having a go at anybody who might disagree with you. And I am sure many will disagree with your views. Is when the name calling starts and the personal attacks, that threads are locked or removed. Have a healthy debate. Keep it civil and I am sure the thread will be left alone. Just if you recall the thread that was locked, somebody began name calling. Which is considered a personal attack on another member. That can be against forum rules.

Buship · Jul 10, 2021

Gooze17 said:
The worst thing global media ever did was cover covid the way they did. It has ended up being a mild survivable disease that, like any other infection, is especially harsh to those of advanced age or with pre existing health conditions. Health anxiety sucks, and the way this has been covered has created needless incessant worry in so many people who’ve never experienced health anxiety before and who generally don’t need to worry about covid any more than the flu or pneumonia. It’s depressing to see so many new people now struggling with some form of health anxiety.

If only it were a mild survivable disease but the death toll would seriously disagree with you.

You have to ask yourself why governments of the world would introduce such harsh restrictions if it was as mild as you claim?

Covid is a serious highly infection disease that is far more dangerous than the flu. Having health anxiety at this time makes everything harder than it is already but we have to deal in facts and not wishful thinking.

bin_tenn · Jul 10, 2021

Buship said:
If only it were a mild survivable disease but the death toll would seriously disagree with you.

You have to ask yourself why governments of the world would introduce such harsh restrictions if it was as mild as you claim?

Covid is a serious highly infection disease that is far more dangerous than the flu. Having health anxiety at this time makes everything harder than it is already but we have to deal in facts and not wishful thinking.

I'm not disagreeing at all, but I want to add that the reported numbers are likely not accurate. A lot of deaths have been contributed to COVID despite the virus not actually contributing to deaths. By "a lot" I'm not saying a majority of them, but enough to considerably sway the perceived effects.

But again, not ultimately disagreeing. I've taken it seriously all along and I've done my part to mitigw5e risks for myself and others.

EDIT:

I guess what I'm saying is that I know your point isn't just the numbers, but I wanted to point out that none of us should put weight on the numbers alone.

Buship · Jul 10, 2021

bin_tenn said:
I'm not disagreeing at all, but I want to add that the reported numbers are likely not accurate. A lot of deaths have been contributed to COVID despite the virus not actually contributing to deaths. By "a lot" I'm not saying a majority of them, but enough to considerably sway the perceived effects.

But again, not ultimately disagreeing. I've taken it seriously all along and I've done my part to mitigw5e risks for myself and others.

I see what you are saying but as a counterpoint there are countries where people suspect it’s the other way round and that deaths are under reported.

In the coming years we will get as close as we can to a “true” death toll but I think the evidence is strong enough that the numbers across the world are at least in the ball park.

I personally think Covid is particularly bad because it’s deadly enough to kill millions but not super deadly. If we had an Ebola outbreak that was as infectious as Covid (which I don’t believe is possible, thankfully) I think the world would have cracked down on it much, much more harshly because no one would be able to downplay the seriousness of something that killed 40% of people infected. Covid kind of sneaks in this Goldilocks zone where it can do enormous damage but because bodies aren’t piling up in the streets many people can’t quite understand just how severe it is.

Cuchculan · Jul 10, 2021

Sure why not post in the thread. The dumbest thing I heard was deaths explained. If you were in a car crash and died, but you have Covid, on your death cert Covid would be written up as the cause of death. Same goes for all deaths if the person had Covid. That is were the numbers get confusing. Have a heart attack tomorrow, but have signs of Covid, it will be written up as the cause of death. Don't matter how you die. If you are found to have Covid after you die, Covid is the cause of death.

Classic example from here in Ireland are deaths that are upgraded to Covid 3 months after the person died. Why was it not considered as Covid when they died? Why change it 3 months later? We have had a fair few hundred of these upgraded deaths. Nobody is explaining them to us here. They refuse to answer questions about them. When they die the cause it put down to something else. You would assume they are buried and after they are buried the cause of death is changed to Covid. Is a mystery. One take on it is that hospitals do actually get paid more money for Covid deaths. No idea how true that is.

I am sure China lied about their death count. They always lie about such things because it makes them look weak. They done the same with SARS. Tried to pretend it didn't exist in China for months. There were thousands dying from it before they came clean about it. No doubt they done the same with this.

I am not saying it is not serious. It is. Mainly because of the unknown factor behind it all. Everybody is still learning about it. Has killed off most of the old / weak and already ill people. Italy had it bad because of the age of people in Italy. Lot of old people in Italy. If you look at the death range, I am sure a lot would be older people. Not saying younger people can't die. They can. Plus long term effects are also unknown. Might have a lot of sick people in the years ahead of us. Long term effects of Covid.

bin_tenn · Jul 10, 2021

Buship said:
I see what you are saying but as a counterpoint there are countries where people suspect it’s the other way round and that deaths are under reported.

In the coming years we will get as close as we can to a “true” death toll but I think the evidence is strong enough that the numbers across the world are at least in the ball park.

I personally think Covid is particularly bad because it’s deadly enough to kill millions but not super deadly. If we had an Ebola outbreak that was as infectious as Covid (which I don’t believe is possible, thankfully) I think the world would have cracked down on it much, much more harshly because no one would be able to downplay the seriousness of something that killed 40% of people infected. Covid kind of sneaks in this Goldilocks zone where it can do enormous damage but because bodies aren’t piling up in the streets many people can’t quite understand just how severe it is.

I also think it's fair to say that the numbers may be underreported in some cases, yes. Depending on the geographic location and whatever other factors. I also don't disagree with that!

My point is really that numbers are in accurate no matter which way they go. As Cuch pointed out, a ton of deaths are attributed to COVID when it had nothing to do with a person's death.

Buship · Jul 10, 2021

Cuchculan said:
Sure why not post in the thread. The dumbest thing I heard was deaths explained. If you were in a car crash and died, but you have Covid, on your death cert Covid would be written up as the cause of death. Same goes for all deaths if the person had Covid. That is were the numbers get confusing. Have a heart attack tomorrow, but have signs of Covid, it will be written up as the cause of death. Don't matter how you die. If you are found to have Covid after you die, Covid is the cause of death.

Classic example from here in Ireland are deaths that are upgraded to Covid 3 months after the person died. Why was it not considered as Covid when they died? Why change it 3 months later? We have had a fair few hundred of these upgraded deaths. Nobody is explaining them to us here. They refuse to answer questions about them. When they die the cause it put down to something else. You would assume they are buried and after they are buried the cause of death is changed to Covid. Is a mystery. One take on it is that hospitals do actually get paid more money for Covid deaths. No idea how true that is.

I am sure China lied about their death count. They always lie about such things because it makes them look weak. They done the same with SARS. Tried to pretend it didn't exist in China for months. There were thousands dying from it before they came clean about it. No doubt they done the same with this.

I am not saying it is not serious. It is. Mainly because of the unknown factor behind it all. Everybody is still learning about it. Has killed off most of the old / weak and already ill people. Italy had it bad because of the age of people in Italy. Lot of old people in Italy. If you look at the death range, I am sure a lot would be older people. Not saying younger people can't die. They can. Plus long term effects are also unknown. Might have a lot of sick people in the years ahead of us. Long term effects of Covid.

It’s just not true though, heart attack victims with COVID are not recorded as covid deaths unless a doctor thinks covid played a part in their death. Some people have covid removed as the cause of death after more investigation and some have it added. This article explains how they record deaths in Ireland.

FactFind: Here is how Covid-19 deaths are counted in Ireland

A Hiqa report has noted a 13% increase in deaths in Ireland during the pandemic.

www.thejournal.ie

Im not going to reply again because I don’t want to argue and that link explains everything. It’s up to you what you believe or not.

ThankfulJen · Jul 10, 2021

Coroner: 'A state agency violates the public trust' - County 10™

(Fremont County, WY) – Soon to retire Fremont County Coroner Mark Stratmoen shared Thursday morning that he has spent several months attempting to resolve issues with Vital Records improperly changing death certificates. He has worked in conjunction with the Fremont County Civil Attorney and the...

county10.com

I'll just leave this here from our local news.

Cuchculan · Jul 10, 2021

That accounts for a lot of deaths here in Ireland. Why they waited so long to upgrade the deaths is the mystery. Have listened to the nightly press conferences. They would give out numbers. Deaths and cases. Then say not all deaths are recent. Some are from up to 3 months ago and have been upgraded. 3 months is a long time. If it was only a week we would understand it all. Bit like saying ' everybody died of Covid, now let us work us which ones really did '. That is what I am reading. Just the time gap between the death and it been added as Covid seems a bit long.

ThankfulJen · Jul 10, 2021

An interesting COVID story from comedian Jim Bruer.

Fraser · Jul 12, 2021

Gooze17 said:
The worst thing global media ever did was cover covid the way they did. It has ended up being a mild survivable disease that, like any other infection, is especially harsh to those of advanced age or with pre existing health conditions. Health anxiety sucks, and the way this has been covered has created needless incessant worry in so many people who’ve never experienced health anxiety before and who generally don’t need to worry about covid any more than the flu or pneumonia. It’s depressing to see so many new people now struggling with some form of health anxiety.

It's not like "any other infection", it's literally causing hospitals to be over run and not have the ability to combat the illness causing more deaths. Don't need to worry about Covid more than the flu? It's killing people at somewhere in the realm of 10 times that of the flu and has higher mortality rates across all age groups with the exception of children under 12. Covid survivors, even young healthy ones, suffer more long terms effects, including possible kidney and heart damage as well as weakness of an unknown origin. It's depressing to see people downplay Covid to justify not getting the vaccine and knowing that the unvaccinated are where new and potentially more deadly variants can originate from.

No, COVID-19 Is Not the Flu | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

A virologist breaks down key differences between COVID-19 and influenza to explain why this pandemic is so critically—and catastrophically—different.

www.jhsph.edu

Buship said:
It’s just not true though, heart attack victims with COVID are not recorded as covid deaths unless a doctor thinks covid played a part in their death. Some people have covid removed as the cause of death after more investigation and some have it added. This article explains how they record deaths in Ireland.

FactFind: Here is how Covid-19 deaths are counted in Ireland

A Hiqa report has noted a 13% increase in deaths in Ireland during the pandemic.

www.thejournal.ie

Im not going to reply again because I don’t want to argue and that link explains everything. It’s up to you what you believe or not.

Good luck with facts. Facts are "boring."

cheer_mom · Jul 14, 2021

Buship said:
It’s just not true though, heart attack victims with COVID are not recorded as covid deaths unless a doctor thinks covid played a part in their death. Some people have covid removed as the cause of death after more investigation and some have it added. This article explains how they record deaths in Ireland.

FactFind: Here is how Covid-19 deaths are counted in Ireland

A Hiqa report has noted a 13% increase in deaths in Ireland during the pandemic.

www.thejournal.ie

Im not going to reply again because I don’t want to argue and that link explains everything. It’s up to you what you believe or not.

Heart attack victims with covid were marked as covid death in the US. CDC even told us that in a press conference. If you does while having an active covid case, you were listed as a covid death. I will try to find the press conference video and post it.

Fraser · Jul 14, 2021

cheer_mom said:
If you does while having an active covid case, you were listed as a covid death. I will try to find the press conference video and post it.

This is not at all true, nor is the "car accident" scenario described upthread. The overwhelming consensus in the scientific and medical communities is that Covid deaths are under counted, and that for every 3 Covid deaths, there is likely another Covid death unaccounted for.

COVID-19 is the big story in mortality statistics – but not the only one

When mortality statistics for 2020 are eventually released, there will be more to the data than just numbers, experts say.

www.heart.org

Not surprisingly, this kind of misinformation has a large following in Trump country. It's dated now, but Scientific American has a good article pointing out how and why the "overreporting" issue isn't at all real.

Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated

President Trump and other conspiracy fantasists touted the fake claim that COVID death counts are exaggerated. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 350,000 deaths*

www.scientificamerican.com

Buship · Jul 15, 2021

cheer_mom said:
Heart attack victims with covid were marked as covid death in the US. CDC even told us that in a press conference. If you does while having an active covid case, you were listed as a covid death. I will try to find the press conference video and post it.

It’s just not true, if heart attack victims are listed as covid deaths it’s because covid contributed to the heart attack. Stop getting health information from the One America News Network because that was the source of this one.

cheer_mom · Jul 15, 2021

Buship said:
It’s just not true, if heart attack victims are listed as covid deaths it’s because covid contributed to the heart attack. Stop getting health information from the One America News Network because that was the source of this one.

It was not from them. I watched an actual news conference where the person from the CDC came on and was answering questions. I am trying to find it. It was from 2020. I know covid is dangerous. I lost my 28 year old healthy niece to it! Please dont think I am some conspiracy theorist or something. I had covid too and I am scared to death of the long term effects. I had it before a vaccine was available.

Fraser · Jul 21, 2021

‘I’m sorry, but it’s too late’: Alabama doctor tells unvaccinated, dying COVID patients

“And now all you really see is their fear and their regret. And even though I may walk into the room thinking, ‘Okay, this is your fault, you did this to yourself,’ when I leave the room, I just see a person that's really suffering, and that is so regretful for the choice that they made.”

www.al.com

Grim and powerful. My heart goes out to this doctor and all doctors who have to deal with this and the misinformation spread by vax deniers.

Cuchculan · Jul 21, 2021

This is like a repeat of a sitcom we all watched about 10 times already over the past few weeks.

Buship · Jul 21, 2021

Cuchculan said:
This is like a repeat of a sitcom we all watched about 10 times already over the past few weeks.

Shame it’s not funny in any way at all.

Fraser · Jul 22, 2021

Cuchculan said:
This is like a repeat of a sitcom we all watched about 10 times already over the past few weeks.

Watching tens of thousands of people die from misinformation being spread isn't funny.

Covid

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